"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."
This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.
To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.
This post is more a comment than anything:
When he was in his worst state of psychosis Mike Mentzer freely admitted that he had asked Jones if he was God and Jones had replied of course not. In later years Mentzer claimed he was deeply embarrassed by this event.
A variation to Mentzers account of this story is repeated in TNHIT. This corroborates that, at some point in time, Mentzer did pose the question of God to Jones and the answer was no, of course not.
A God is defined in the dictionary as 'the one supreme being, creator and ruler of the universe - worshipped and thought to have power over human affairs'.
There is a person on another thread who seems to accept this (i.e. Jones is not God), but who has made a statement, supported with commentary, that the man is greater than God (or a God).
I am not a religious man, yet I find this statement strangely disturbing.
A God is a mythical, supernatural creature. That is, something that is not constrained by the reality of the universe yet exerts affect over it at will.
So, that said man is greater than a god in that we are natural, do exist and actually do exert affect over reality. Gods show up only in stories, imagination and affect only our feelings in a second hand manner. Man creates, invents and shapes his world all under his own steam.
Possibly not the direction you were going here Jeff but I thought it would be fun to add to your commentary.
The very notion of a God is silly unless one is involved in pure story telling for entertainment or a "metaphorical morality play".
Jeff, the disturbing thing about the original statement that I see is this ? Comparing ourselves to that which exists only in fantasy causes all sorts of problems. You cannot possibly reconcile a comparison between that which must obey the laws of reality and a dream. If you try to measure reality against the limitless possibilities of a dream reality loses. If you measure a dream against the limits of reality you lose the beauty and creative nature of the fantasy. However, humans have been doing this since time and memorial. Comparing reality against their imaginations and finding reality leaves them flat. Alas the science of the mind is about as far along as exercise science!
If we could only stick to utilizing imagination to FEED our creative drive, then in reality we would succeed so much more.
Superior beings, when of late they saw
A mortal man unfold all nature's law,
Admir'd such wisdom in an earthly shape,
And shew'd a Newton (AJ;) as we shew an ape.
So the sublime has gone to the ridiculous, has it.
It is interesting how many of us base our opinions on research and study, then, in some cases, ridicule others for their beliefs, they don't line up with our well research position.
Now we are getting into the "there is no god" debate. Wow, that's a new one, hadn't heard of it before. Of course, it was spawned by some foolish statements and now furthered by more foolish statements.
When someone makes an unsubstantiated claim about some fitness testing or protocol that we don't agree with, what happens on this post? First there is some good natured ribbing, some educated information, then the "mockingbirds" come out in full force.
To say on this forum that there is no God (capitalized or not), or tha God a certain man is "better than that" is like saying "HIT is OK for the beginner, but serious lifters use HVT."
Oooohhhhh, blasphemy. Since joining this forum several months ago, I have never once made any remarks concerning religion and have ignored most that do. Not the place unless someone asks, despite being more educated in that particular field than almost everyone else on this forum put together (broad sweeping statement with little basis simply to illustrate a point).
I also have a limited knowledge/education in exercise physiology. That is why I ask a lot of questions, only make comments about my experiences and tend to listen more than I talk, ascribing to the theory that it is better to keep your mouth shut and have people guess you are a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt. Hence, my limited contributions.
So, before we make broad, sweeping statements that are completely unsubstantiated and bordering in insane (20 reps x 20 sets, each set to failure :( ), let's stick to the premise of the forum: The New HIT
It is interesting that the culture which first revered the perfection of the human body made thier gods in the image of man and not the other way around.
I think the first person , that I know of ,to bring religion up in association with Arthur Jones was Vince Gironda. He wrote an article entitled " Lo a Wise Man Has Arisen In The East " . He sang praises to Jones throughout the whole article . Then a month later he went into an endless tirade against machines that continued for decades. How fickle are those who rely on faith and not reason.
bill1 wrote:
It is interesting that the culture which first revered the perfection of the human body made thier gods in the image of man and not the other way around.
bill1 wrote:
It is interesting that the culture which first revered the perfection of the human body made thier gods in the image of man and not the other way around.
The culture that I am referring to was buried under a mountain of faith, popped up again to create the Rennaisance and again to inspire the Age of Reason.
Admittedley there are many today who are, once again ,working very hard to re-impose another age of faith, ( Dark Ages ) , but in the long run they will lose. The spirit of man cannot be killed by any god.
I'm quite amazed to read that most of you guys don't beleive in a GOD. It's ironic that man has given so HIGH REAGRS to his LOGIC that we beleives that it's the most reliable form of TRUTH. Well in fact LOGIC only exist in the context and the limitations of our understanding and all of us do agree that man hasn't fully understood(and discovered)everything so it is only safe to conclude that our LOGIC is limited and can be innacurate.
For me I do beleive in a SUPEREME BEING. Why? For the simple fact that I beleive that thier is a creator and designer of nature and the universe.
Evolutionists argue that everything in nature was bourne out of a Random COSMIC ACCIDENT. I fully disagree with that because logic and experience would tell us that ACCIDENTS almost always result in DISORDER and Nature and the Universe amazingly has ORDER.
Another thing that is amazing is how we humans have been given the gift of consciousness and learning ability. I mean if evolutionist say that our sole purpose in life is survival then why do we need consciousness and learining ability ? The most successful creatures on earth which are the one-celled organisms had been here far longer than we have. In fact they had survived numerous extiction stages in the earth's history and those creatures do not have to develop such sofisticated intellegence to do that. So I'm sure suvival was not the primary reason for us developing consciousness and advance intellegence. So in fact thier must be a more rational purpose for us to have this gift.
Another thing I want to point out is that if we all agree that man has not yet understood everything and LOGIC is not perfect so then why would we be willing to trust our capabilities to conclude thqt their is no supreme being if all we see everyday points to the opposite.
bill1 wrote:
The culture that I am referring to was buried under a mountain of faith, popped up again to create the Rennaisance and again to inspire the Age of Reason.
Admittedley there are many today who are, once again ,working very hard to re-impose another age of faith, ( Dark Ages ) , but in the long run they will lose. The spirit of man cannot be killed by any god.
Bill
A couple of interesting points here, Bill. First, if some of the posts on this site were "inspired" by this age of reason, we should look for inspiration elsewhere.
Second, it is hard to "impose" faith, let alone re-impose it. What made the Dark Ages dark (dark ages being an obsolete term, BTW)? Was it not man trying to control the spirit of other men? As for your comment, "they will fail", I certainly hope so. Man cannot impose faith, God, however, can inspire it. The comment "the spirit of man cannot be killed by any god" is your opinion, to which you are entitled. I, personally, think it isn't very solid footing. My opinion, to which I am entitled.
Third, and I am drawing on Neuro's last paragraph, let me ask one last question: If, in the whole universe, you could gather every shred of knowledge about everything, where would you rank your current level of knowledge today?
Finally, I am not here to preach, it was not I who brought up the religion-speak. I am not trying to convert anyone; to HIT or otherwise:) I would just as soon we talked fitness on this site and left it at that. I think it would do wonders for our credibility, claiming AJ greater than god notwithstanding.
It's just amazing to note that even the Rennaisance masters and philosophers DID BELIEVE in a supreme being.
Another thing is that it was not the FAITH which made the dark ages dark. In fact it was individuals who did not fully understand and internbalize the faith and in some cases was influence by so-called new ideas (philosophy) at that time that created the DARK AGES. I mean where in the New Testament can you find the statement " KILLING in the name of God" ? I guess none. In fact the Faith teaches LOVE, FORGIVENESS and PEACE. Nobody would argue that that is wrong I mean even UNBELEIVERS would agree that those are very important. But why did it happen and why was it propagated by the church ? Simply because of ignorance of the faith or possibly a greater thirst for power. In no way was the FAITH responsible for that at all.
Science , philosophy, Mathematics, etc. are good but it's manmade knowledge and man is not and can never be perfect so it's safe to say that those too CANNOT be perfect. And as the good book says "IF THE BLIND SHOULD LEAD THE BLIND BOTH WOULD FALL INTO THE DITCH".
The United States is currently fighting a war against those who would impose thier faith upon the whole world. Specticals of this nature have been the norm throughout the history of man. With only a few brief respites, noteably the two periods of time I mentioned previously. Renaissance means to be reborn , reborn into the light of reason and out of the darkness of faith.
"The United States is currently fighting a war against those who would impose their faith upon the whole world. Spectacles of this nature have been the norm throughout the history of man. With only a few brief respites, notably the two periods of time I mentioned previously. Renaissance means to be reborn , reborn into the light of reason and out of the darkness of faith. -Bill"
Bravo Bill!
The thing that bothers me most about ideas like GOD, is the lack of responsibility shown by those who profess to have faith. The onus lies with those who promote, propose or profess an idea. To garner any serious consideration there is a major responsibility with those who put forth an assertion to back it up with evidence, proof, rational explanations, repeatable and measurable things that establish a thing as existing. I have nothing against feelings but they do not on their own mean anything specific. Mature adults use reason and logic to properly interpret their feelings.
Many cultures have had massive support throughout the ages for ideas (like white supremacy) that were clearly wrong, disgusting and destructive. Regardless of how people felt in their hearts, how many believed, the number of books written on the subject, the amount or size of monuments it did not make their idea right or true.
The thing that bothers me .... is the lack of responsibility shown by those who profess to have faith.
Andrew,
I agree with you. However, just because certain individuals who believe lack responsibility, that doesn't mean all believers lack responsibilty or haven't thought logically about God's existence.
The thing that bothers me .... is the lack of responsibility shown by those who profess to have faith.
Andrew,
I agree with you. However, just because certain individuals who believe lack responsibility, that doesn't mean all believers lack responsibilty or haven't thought logically about God's existence.
Steve
It has been thought about logically, by many 'deep thinkers', and with few exceptions most come same conclusion 'god only exists in the mind of man!'
:)
The thing that bothers me .... is the lack of responsibility shown by those who profess to have faith.
Andrew,
I agree with you. However, just because certain individuals who believe lack responsibility, that doesn't mean all believers lack responsibilty or haven't thought logically about God's existence.
Steve
It has been thought about logically, by many 'deep thinkers', and with few exceptions most come same conclusion 'god only exists in the mind of man!'
:)
Sesame,
Can't argue with that. However, most does not mean all. :)
The thing that bothers me .... is the lack of responsibility shown by those who profess to have faith.
Andrew,
I agree with you. However, just because certain individuals who believe lack responsibility, that doesn't mean all believers lack responsibilty or haven't thought logically about God's existence.
Steve
It has been thought about logically, by many 'deep thinkers', and with few exceptions most come same conclusion 'god only exists in the mind of man!'
:)
Energy is neither created nor destroyed it can only be converted from one form to another. This is a scientific fact.
If this is wrong and energy could be created or destroyed, all of our ideas of how the world works would have to be modified in some way.
My question is this.
If the above is true then what started the first form of energy to get us to where we are now ?
bill1 wrote:
The United States is currently fighting a war against those who would impose thier faith upon the whole world. Specticals of this nature have been the norm throughout the history of man. With only a few brief respites, noteably the two periods of time I mentioned previously. Renaissance means to be reborn , reborn into the light of reason and out of the darkness of faith.
Bill
Although this is not a thought that I espouse, many in the world would say, to paraphrase Bill, "The United States is fighting to impose it's faith on the world."
Unfortunately, the relativism of logic and reason won't get you very far. Thank you renaissance. Good artwork, though. As for renaissance meaning to be reborn and reborn meaning a second birth, what was the first birth?
Just looking historical on our fitness site, no less, but the so called Dark Ages came right on the heals of the Roman Empire, which was one of the most brutal and savage nations ever to exist. To oversimply history, Rome followed Greece. Greece was rather civilized and educated but what did that get them. The Olympics?
But I wax facetious. There are many contributions to our current society that these past societies have given us (western civilization). Rome was a republic, Greece "modernized" education, many of our laws based on judeo christian ethic.
What becomes the issue, as always, is how man deals with what he is given. Take this forum: all kinds of great info on strength training, body building, fitness, etc, yet people, despite given something good, still choose to follow the dark side, speaking of star wars.
One more thing: Bill, you said earlier that no god could kill the spirit of man. Why would God want to kill the spirit of man when one of the first things he said was to "go, be fruitfull and multiply"? It would seem he wanted our spirits to thrive not die.
bill1 wrote:
The United States is currently fighting a war against those who would impose thier faith upon the whole world. Specticals of this nature have been the norm throughout the history of man. With only a few brief respites, noteably the two periods of time I mentioned previously. Renaissance means to be reborn , reborn into the light of reason and out of the darkness of faith.
Bill
But again this situation is bourne out of man's IGNORANCE (due to man's IMPREFECTIONS) and not of FAITH. Remember that this behavior were also true in ATHIESTIC society such as the Communists regimes. It's the EXCESSES of men that is responsible for all this troubles and not the faith. It's like if Einstien made some mistakes in his calculations I don't think that would make the LAWS OF PHYSICS invalid.
