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HIT and Bulking?
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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

Hey, I finally made the decision to bulk for the first time.

I'm wondering if anybody here or elsewhere have been able to bulk successfully while using HIT? It seems, from my perspective, that people use HIT to gain strength, lose fat, or maintain their shape. But I haven't seen anybody here who actually bulks and uses HIT.

An experienced bodybuilder told me that he has never heard of anybody who bulked with HIT successfully. Famous bodybuilders such as Yates and Mentzer got big on HVT, then switched to HIT.

If you gained size while on bulking and HIT, what sort of routine did you use? Whole body, two-day splits, or what?

Thanks.
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FamilyMan

Missouri, USA

I am also curious. I had a bad experience with "bulking", so I would advise to be careful. If it doesn't seem to be working, stop before it ruins you.
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Cherry

What is "bulk".. lean muscle or simply "size"? What is meaning of bulk?
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oneHITwonder

Bulking deals more with caloric intake rather than what type of program you use. To gain size, you take in more calories than you expell. To tone, lose weight, cut, or what have you, you take in less calories.
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davise

The classic 20 rep squat program and milk by Dr Randall Strossen is a good one. Remember, only do it for six weeks and only twice a week instead of 3 times a week like the book recommends
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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

oneHITwonder wrote:
Bulking deals more with caloric intake rather than what type of program you use. To gain size, you take in more calories than you expell. To tone, lose weight, cut, or what have you, you take in less calories.


Oh, I know that. I'm not concerned about the science. I just want to know if people have bulked successfully while using HIT as their training strategy.

Dr. Darden, Casey Viator, Mike Mentzer, Sergio Oliva, and Dorian Yates weren't using HIT when they got their initial size. They used HIT to maintain or improve their appearance, but what about size?

I understand that genetics and/or anabolics helped the above bodybuilders. We still have men similar to the above listed today, but they haven't credited HIT for their mass gain. At least none that I know of.

Does anybody know? HIT has been around for 30 years, so somebody should have used it to get to elite level, rather than maintain it, by now.

How about David Hudlow in the NHIT book? The photograph of him at the end of Phase IV was taken close-up so it can't be easily compared to the Phase II to gauge if he actually got bigger. He lost 4 pounds overall.

Other muscle gains were mentioned in p. 221, but total weight gain wasn't mentioned. Just muscle gain. Eddie Mueller does look a bit bigger, but is he heavier?

I'm not interested in "looking" bigger. I want to be bigger and heavier. (Answers your question, Cherry?) I'm planning on playing competitive rugby again soon and size is very important for that. Also, when I play rugby again, for weight training, I want to do whole-body. Split training was very tedious when I played in college.

FamilyMan, when you bulked, did you follow a controlled bulking plan such as the one outlined by John Berardi, "Massive Eating" (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459429). It's my bulking guideline. Eat lots of clean calories and assess my progress every 2 weeks.
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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

davise wrote:
The classic 20 rep squat program and milk by Dr Randall Strossen is a good one. Remember, only do it for six weeks and only twice a week instead of 3 times a week like the book recommends


-Is it a HIT program? :-) Thanks for the suggestion.
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Belly

Dr Darden's done plenty of books on Bulking, I'd suggest Massive Muscles in Ten Weeks and BIG. The studies are well illustrated and documented with before and after stats. I would also recommend Super Squats, the abbreviated program done twice a week can certainly be done HIT style, I used it in my early 20's and gained 21 pounds in 12 weeks without a lot of fat gain.
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FamilyMan

Missouri, USA

What I have to say is not objective - it is my experience.

I trimmed down to 12% at about 170-175 a few years ago while doing HVT. I lost fat, but also muscle.

"Hey, this bulking thing seems like it would work." So I went onto a 2 year fat building program during HVT. Note that I don't mean I ate sloppy - just a BIG and lots of protein. My strength increased along with my body mass, but mostly fat.

Then I tried to cut with HVT, extra cardio, and a high protein fat loss diet. I COULD NOT loose the fat.

I read The New HIT, and am currently implementing the program. HIT has shed fat off of my body and maintained muscle. The next goal is somewhat of a clean bulk. You maintain lower body fat while increasing a carb rich diet. I look forward to trying that.

Again, this is just my experience. The BULK with HVT didn't do much for me. Just don't get sucked in if it doesn't work for you.
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FamilyMan

Missouri, USA

It sounds like you are more interested in size in general. Bulk up!

I read Berrardi and some other bulking diets. I remember the Chanko diet from Sumo wrestlers. I ate lots of rice, corn, and tuna to begin. Then a cleaned up later.
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logicbdj

Ontario, CAN

If you can grab an inch or two of fat around the waist/love handles, then you're obviously consuming enough kcal; otherwise, you wouldn't have that fat.

1. I've done the bulking thing, but not on what I would call a HIT program (perhaps 5-6 sets per muscle). I force fed myself to 227 pounds; my lean mass was the same, the gain was fat. Thereafter, I found it harder to get lean than what I previously experienced. The experience seemed to have an effect on the homeostasis of my fat cells.

2. I've developed muscle and lost fat, and I know many who have, including those I have trained and done repeated body comp testing. If you consume enough kcal to maintain some fat (some abs showing, but not clean and deep lines), then there definitely is enough kcal being consumed to support the addition of some muscle... tissue that is 70% water.

If you cannot build muscle on your current program and nutrition plan (and the nutrients are enough to sustain what fat you have), then adding more calories is not the answer, since the body can only do so much with its resources, and you will continue adding to the fat stores. If your body could or would build muscle, it would have taken the energy from the calories that currently are going to sustaining your fat stores.
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Wolfie

BFBullpup wrote:
An experienced bodybuilder told me that he has never heard of anybody who bulked with HIT successfully.


Nonsense. You can get fat on any program.

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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

Thanks for the replies so far. I am equally concerned about the gains being fat. I've never bulked anyway, so first time for everything. I plan to re-assess myself every two weeks. If I'm gaining too much fat for my liking, then consuming more calories is definitely what I won't be doing in response to that.

Another thing, too. People who bulk using HVT tend not to do cardio, so it's not surprising that they usually gain a lot of fat. HIT is cardio, so I'm curious as to the results of using THAT type of weight training instead. Hence, I'm trying it on myself. If I can remember to, I'll use this thread to assess my progress 2 weeks from now. :-)
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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

Oh, I forgot to mention that I'm using superhydration as well. Not sure how many of the bulkers (current and former) here have done this. I'm at 6-7 liters of cold water per day.
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jrholt

Tennessee, USA

I have and many of my clients have. It is all about Progressive High intensity Strength training ( moving the weghts up ) and a gradual in crease in caloric intake)

Jeff
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RobT

Hi BF

I've had great results over the years and have always trained with Dr Dardens HIT programs - my best gains have been from using the program from BIG, Big Muscles in 10 weeks and High Intensity Bodybuilding - following the asending calorie diets and programs exactly as written.

The bottom pic is at age 17 just before i did the 'Big muscles in 10 weeks' program and the top one is a month ago at age 34 after finishing the wider shoulder program and 6 weeks of dieting down.

Good luck with your program and just adjust your calories as you go - back off a bit if you start gaining too much bf or up them a bit more if your not gaining weight/size.

Rob T
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M Lipowski

New York, USA

Rob,

That is an absolutely FANTASTIC transformation!

Best,
Mike
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noone

New York, USA

Rob looks fantastic.

Bret
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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

RobT wrote:
Good luck with your program and just adjust your calories as you go - back off a bit if you start gaining too much bf or up them a bit more if your not gaining weight/size.

Rob T


Nice work, Rob. How many pounds heavier are you now than when you were 19?
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saseme

Do we have a definition of what bulking is? Does it mean that fat gain is acceptable? I'm not sure?
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marcrph

Portugal

RobT wrote:
Hi BF

I've had great results over the years and have always trained with Dr Dardens HIT programs - my best gains have been from using the program from BIG, Big Muscles in 10 weeks and High Intensity Bodybuilding - following the asending calorie diets and programs exactly as written.

The bottom pic is at age 17 just before i did the 'Big muscles in 10 weeks' program and the top one is a month ago at age 34 after finishing the wider shoulder program and 6 weeks of dieting down.

Good luck with your program and just adjust your calories as you go - back off a bit if you start gaining too much bf or up them a bit more if your not gaining weight/size.

Rob T


Outstanding!
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BF Bullpup

Massachusetts, USA

saseme wrote:
Do we have a definition of what bulking is? Does it mean that fat gain is acceptable? I'm not sure?


You can't bulk without fat gain, although it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be more fat than muscular, either.
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mufasta

One of the problems you'll have in getting an answer is most tried HVT before they even knew about HIT. I'm sure Yates trained liked everyone else when he started and switched to a HIT like routine the more he got into it.

I believe you can bulk doing a HIT routine. I'm still really sloppy in regards to my diet, but I've gained back about 15lbs. of muscle in the last few months being very inconsistent. I did HVT training in HS and was benching around 350 weighing 185 at 5'8" - 12% bf. I stayed that way even as I started personal training after graduation for about 2 years.

At 20 I started doing Heavy Duty and wieght and strength started to really go up. Legs started to really fill in and I hit 200 with no gain in BF in a few months.

Like today, my workouts were on and off, before it was due to drinking and staying out late where today its kids and work. At 22 I was 215 and benching 450+ with a deadlift of 600+ still holding on to 12% bf. I trained Heavy Duty for 6 solid months (only time I really stayed on track) and I really saw the gains.
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RobT


How many pounds heavier are you now than when you were 19?[/quote]

I had gained around 40 pounds without going over about 12-13% BF, then lost a bit of weight when i 'blew out' my knee and also dieting down to 6% this summer, in about 6 weeks - so i think its about 28 lbs difference between the two pics.

Generally i gained weight asending gradually from 3500 - 4500 calories then diet down desending from 2700-2000. I think a big mistake a lot of guys make is jumping up 1000 caolories or more straight away instead of gradually increasing them by 100 or so each week.

My first training partner, Andy, who introduced me to HIT and lent me Ellingtons books - gained about 60 lbs over 5 years - wish i had some photos - he got his thighs to around 29 inches and calves and arms to 18! My parents used to hate it when he came round, as he used to eat about 3 days worth of food.

In fact - my very first experience of HIT set was when he asked me and two other guys in the gym to sit on his back for a set of donkey calf raises - and asked if i could hold a dumbell too as i was a bit light!!

After he completed the set to absolute failure and collapsed to his knees, i asked if he needed me for his other sets. What other sets? he replied.

After watching a few of his workouts i finally got up the courage to ask about his training program and he brought in 'Big Muscles in 10 weeks' for me.

Rob
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macke

Try DC training. It produces massive muscles...and there are lots of evidence on their site
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