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Sciatic Nerve Flossing
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marcrph

Portugal

Many have asked me questions about training with lower back problems. I'm no expert! I have read plenty. Most interesting read of all is Dr. Stuart McGill "Ultimate Back Fitness And Performance." He is most undoubtedly a very smart individual when it come to the back. All would be wise to take notice of his writings. It is very interesting that those over on T-Nation do!

Question: I know there are chiropractors on this board,
so could we have a good discussion about sciatic nerve flossing!

http://massage.fullcoll.edu/...mbar-spine.html
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
Many have asked me questions about training with lower back problems. I'm no expert! I have read plenty. Most interesting read of all is Dr. Stuart McGill "Ultimate Back Fitness And Performance." He is most undoubtedly a very smart individual when it come to the back. All would be wise to take notice of his writings. It is very interesting that those over on T-Nation do!

Question: I know there are chiropractors on this board,
so could we have a good discussion about sciatic nerve flossing!

http://massage.fullcoll.edu/...mbar-spine.html


The stretch shown is a good way to relieve some circumstances of low back pain. I wish they would have chosen a better term than " flossing " though , at first I thought it was going to involve a thong.

Bill
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marcrph

Portugal

Inversion boots may help with the compressive loads of heavy squats and dead lifts. These inversions could be done on a chinning bar or perhaps the Nautilus Omni Multi Exerciser.

I would imagine these inversions to be of much greater value than BIO-FORCE's reverse squats for decompressing the spine.

Marc
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Acerimmer1

Bill Sekerak wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Many have asked me questions about training with lower back problems. I'm no expert! I have read plenty. Most interesting read of all is Dr. Stuart McGill "Ultimate Back Fitness And Performance." He is most undoubtedly a very smart individual when it come to the back. All would be wise to take notice of his writings. It is very interesting that those over on T-Nation do!

Question: I know there are chiropractors on this board,
so could we have a good discussion about sciatic nerve flossing!

http://massage.fullcoll.edu/...mbar-spine.html


The stretch shown is a good way to relieve some circumstances of low back pain. I wish they would have chosen a better term than " flossing " though , at first I thought it was going to involve a thong.

Bill


I think it's called that because thats exactly what it is. Although nerve glide is the more common term for this type of exercise.

The nerve is moving along the channel in which it runs just like floss moves between your teeth. The general idea is to free the nerve from any adhesions to the fascia and suchlike.

First thing to do is to drink plenty of fluids. Which should help lubricate (for want of a better word) the fascia.

I'm not really sure what the purpose of this is for you personally. Is it intended to cure, prevent or improve performance? You should know it's not uncommon for nerve glides to make problems worse by tractioning the nerve.

If the stretch causes numbness, tingling, pain or feelings of weakness don't do it.

In any case you would probably be better off getting a chiropractic exam (which everybody should have) and discussing it then.
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
Inversion boots may help with the compressive loads of heavy squats and dead lifts. These inversions could be done on a chinning bar or perhaps the Nautilus Omni Multi Exerciser.

I would imagine these inversions to be of much greater value than BIO-FORCE's reverse squats for decompressing the spine.

Marc


Hi Marc,

Actually my "reverse loaded squats" don't "decompress" they cyclically compress and decompress, in aa reverse loading pattern.

And the picture you posted, can be stressfull to the Lumbar Discs, because it causes the Psosas to create tension on the lumbar spine.

There is a device where you hang upside down, but with your hips flexed, that allows that Psoas tension to lessen, and it allows a reasonable "decompression".



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eintology

California, USA

BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Inversion boots may help with the compressive loads of heavy squats and dead lifts. These inversions could be done on a chinning bar or perhaps the Nautilus Omni Multi Exerciser.

I would imagine these inversions to be of much greater value than BIO-FORCE's reverse squats for decompressing the spine.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Actually my "reverse loaded squats" don't "decompress" they cyclically compress and decompress, in aa reverse loading pattern.

And the picture you posted, can be stressfull to the Lumbar Discs, because it causes the Psosas to create tension on the lumbar spine.

There is a device where you hang upside down, but with your hips flexed, that allows that Psoas tension to lessen, and it allows a reasonable "decompression".



Dr. LeRoy Perry's "Invertabod."
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

Looks like this.

Because the hip is slightly flexed, it allows the Psoas to relax, and this then allows the other torso muscles t odo the same.

When the muscle tension to the vertebra is reduced, then the spine (in that position, will be able to decompress within the limits of the spinal ligaments.
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marcrph

Portugal

BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Inversion boots may help with the compressive loads of heavy squats and dead lifts. These inversions could be done on a chinning bar or perhaps the Nautilus Omni Multi Exerciser.

I would imagine these inversions to be of much greater value than BIO-FORCE's reverse squats for decompressing the spine.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Actually my "reverse loaded squats" don't "decompress" they cyclically compress and decompress, in aa reverse loading pattern.

And the picture you posted, can be stressfull to the Lumbar Discs, because it causes the Psosas to create tension on the lumbar spine.

There is a device where you hang upside down, but with your hips flexed, that allows that Psoas tension to lessen, and it allows a reasonable "decompression".





Hi John,

Psoas tension nevertheless, many experts recommend inversion therapy.
There are many inversion machines for sell because of this alleged benefit.

Marc
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marcrph

Portugal

eintology wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Inversion boots may help with the compressive loads of heavy squats and dead lifts. These inversions could be done on a chinning bar or perhaps the Nautilus Omni Multi Exerciser.

I would imagine these inversions to be of much greater value than BIO-FORCE's reverse squats for decompressing the spine.

Marc

Hi Marc,

Actually my "reverse loaded squats" don't "decompress" they cyclically compress and decompress, in aa reverse loading pattern.

And the picture you posted, can be stressfull to the Lumbar Discs, because it causes the Psosas to create tension on the lumbar spine.

There is a device where you hang upside down, but with your hips flexed, that allows that Psoas tension to lessen, and it allows a reasonable "decompression".



Dr. LeRoy Perry's "Invertabod."


I was under the impression that the Invertabod was no longer available.
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marcrph

Portugal

The psoas muscles can be stretched.

http://www.spinalinjuryfoundat...
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marcrph

Portugal

A better option than the Invertabod?



http://images.google.com/...l%3Den%26sa%3DN

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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
Hi John,

Psoas tension nevertheless, many experts recommend inversion therapy.
There are many inversion machines for sell because of this alleged benefit.

Marc


Hi Marc,

And please note that I was not saying that inversion therapy was a bad thing. In fact, my point (not clearly made) was that the "Lumbar" spine is more effectively decompressed by the above pictured device.



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marcrph

Portugal

Robin McKenzie, a physical therapist in New Zealand has a fine reputation on sciatica problems. The book "Treat Your Own Back," authored by Mr. McKenzie, has a solid reputation.

http://www.spine-health.com/...x/sciaex03.html



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marcrph

Portugal

Robin McKenzie's book:

http://www.amazon.com/...e/dp/0959774661
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Acerimmer1

BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Hi John,

Psoas tension nevertheless, many experts recommend inversion therapy.
There are many inversion machines for sell because of this alleged benefit.

Marc

Hi Marc,

And please note that I was not saying that inversion therapy was a bad thing. In fact, my point (not clearly made) was that the "Lumbar" spine is more effectively decompressed by the above pictured device.





Did I miss something? How did we get here from sciatic nerve glides?
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marcrph

Portugal

Here is another tool for decompressing the spine relayed to me by a prominent member on this forum! Look for the Lynx portable back stretcher!

http://www.sitincomfort.com/ly...
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
Here is another tool for decompressing the spine relayed to me by a prominent member on this forum! Look for the Lynx portable back stretcher!

http://www.sitincomfort.com/ly...



To actually allow the spinal disc(s) to decompress, all muscle tension activity should be minimized or stopped, since any activation will generally cause a resistance to decompression.

Likely one of the best methods, to reduce this tension and place the body in a position where even the passive is thwarting, it to take a large "Stability ball", and lie prone on it with the arms on one side and the legs on the other.

This can also be done on an appropriately sized Ottoman, if you don't have a ball.
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marcrph

Portugal

BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Here is another tool for decompressing the spine relayed to me by a prominent member on this forum! Look for the Lynx portable back stretcher!

http://www.sitincomfort.com/ly...


To actually allow the spinal disc(s) to decompress, all muscle tension activity should be minimized or stopped, since any activation will generally cause a resistance to decompression.

Likely one of the best methods, to reduce this tension and place the body in a position where even the passive is thwarting, it to take a large "Stability ball", and lie prone on it with the arms on one side and the legs on the other.

This can also be done on an appropriately sized Ottoman, if you don't have a ball.


Hi John,

Would you be so kind as to illustrate this?

Thanks in advance

Marc
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:

To actually allow the spinal disc(s) to decompress, all muscle tension activity should be minimized or stopped, since any activation will generally cause a resistance to decompression.

Likely one of the best methods, to reduce this tension and place the body in a position where even the passive is thwarting, it to take a large "Stability ball", and lie prone on it with the arms on one side and the legs on the other.

This can also be done on an appropriately sized Ottoman, if you don't have a ball.


Hi John,

Would you be so kind as to illustrate this?

Thanks in advance

Marc


Hi Marc,

I don't have an illustration, but very simply, you lie face down over a large Stability ball so that you can relax all the muscles.

The weight of the arms and head on one side, and the legs on the other.

The front of the body (chest and abs) is supported by the ball and allows the decompression to take place, with little resistance from muscle tension.



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marcrph

Portugal

BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:

To actually allow the spinal disc(s) to decompress, all muscle tension activity should be minimized or stopped, since any activation will generally cause a resistance to decompression.

Likely one of the best methods, to reduce this tension and place the body in a position where even the passive is thwarting, it to take a large "Stability ball", and lie prone on it with the arms on one side and the legs on the other.

This can also be done on an appropriately sized Ottoman, if you don't have a ball.


Hi John,

Would you be so kind as to illustrate this?

Thanks in advance

Marc

Hi Marc,

I don't have an illustration, but very simply, you lie face down over a large Stability ball so that you can relax all the muscles.

The weight of the arms and head on one side, and the legs on the other.

The front of the body (chest and abs) is supported by the ball and allows the decompression to take place, with little resistance from muscle tension.





Hi John,

Even though I agree the ideal situation for decompression would be a relaxation of the involved muscles, I think in reality this would be impossible. Some experts do not believe in decompression at all, perhaps for their own motives.

However, your prescription for back stretching goes contrary to what the aforementioned Robin McKenzie prescribed. He recommends extension rather than flexing as you prescribed.
Note the following:


McKenzie extension exercises. These back exercises focus on extending the spine to reduce the pressure on, and the pain generated from, a herniated or degenerating disc. Pain relief can be felt in both the back and the leg, and when the pain is very acute the exercises may be done several times a day.

John, please note the McKenzie press up.

http://www.dynamicsports.net/...stretches_2.htm
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marcrph

Portugal

Perhaps a better way of stretching the low back.

http://www.lumbarextender.com/...
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marcrph

Portugal

Prior heat therapy may help with DOMS from exercise, most notably from heavy dead lifts.

http://www.spine-health.com/...heatwrap01.html

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marcrph

Portugal

The piriformis muscle can also cause sciatic pain. This is a quite common occurrence.

Stretches can be quite helpful.

http://www.spine-health.com/...x/sciaex06.html

I thought some might enjoy a demonstration of a piriformis stretch.

http://www.youtube.com/...related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=N9Qw4aAFdbc
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:

To actually allow the spinal disc(s) to decompress, all muscle tension activity should be minimized or stopped, since any activation will generally cause a resistance to decompression.

Likely one of the best methods, to reduce this tension and place the body in a position where even the passive is thwarting, it to take a large "Stability ball", and lie prone on it with the arms on one side and the legs on the other.

This can also be done on an appropriately sized Ottoman, if you don't have a ball.


Hi John,

Would you be so kind as to illustrate this?

Thanks in advance

Marc

Hi Marc,

I don't have an illustration, but very simply, you lie face down over a large Stability ball so that you can relax all the muscles.

The weight of the arms and head on one side, and the legs on the other.

The front of the body (chest and abs) is supported by the ball and allows the decompression to take place, with little resistance from muscle tension.





Hi John,

Even though I agree the ideal situation for decompression would be a relaxation of the involved muscles, I think in reality this would be impossible. Some experts do not believe in decompression at all, perhaps for their own motives.

However, your prescription for back stretching goes contrary to what the aforementioned Robin McKenzie prescribed. He recommends extension rather than flexing as you prescribed.
Note the following:


McKenzie extension exercises. These back exercises focus on extending the spine to reduce the pressure on, and the pain generated from, a herniated or degenerating disc. Pain relief can be felt in both the back and the leg, and when the pain is very acute the exercises may be done several times a day.

John, please note the McKenzie press up.

http://www.dynamicsports.net/...s_2.htm


This is an excellent way to get some movement in the low back, thus acheiving " fluid transfer " and hydration of the discs. It works very well , it is of no monetary cost , it is simple , it can be done almost anywhere and can provide a good deal of immediate relief.

Bill
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marcrph

Portugal

Bill Sekerak wrote:
marcrph wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:
marcrph wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:

To actually allow the spinal disc(s) to decompress, all muscle tension activity should be minimized or stopped, since any activation will generally cause a resistance to decompression.

Likely one of the best methods, to reduce this tension and place the body in a position where even the passive is thwarting, it to take a large "Stability ball", and lie prone on it with the arms on one side and the legs on the other.

This can also be done on an appropriately sized Ottoman, if you don't have a ball.


Hi John,

Would you be so kind as to illustrate this?

Thanks in advance

Marc

Hi Marc,

I don't have an illustration, but very simply, you lie face down over a large Stability ball so that you can relax all the muscles.

The weight of the arms and head on one side, and the legs on the other.

The front of the body (chest and abs) is supported by the ball and allows the decompression to take place, with little resistance from muscle tension.





Hi John,

Even though I agree the ideal situation for decompression would be a relaxation of the involved muscles, I think in reality this would be impossible. Some experts do not believe in decompression at all, perhaps for their own motives.

However, your prescription for back stretching goes contrary to what the aforementioned Robin McKenzie prescribed. He recommends extension rather than flexing as you prescribed.
Note the following:


McKenzie extension exercises. These back exercises focus on extending the spine to reduce the pressure on, and the pain generated from, a herniated or degenerating disc. Pain relief can be felt in both the back and the leg, and when the pain is very acute the exercises may be done several times a day.

John, please note the McKenzie press up.

http://www.dynamicsports.net/...stretches_2.htm

This is an excellent way to get some movement in the low back, thus acheiving " fluid transfer " and hydration of the discs. It works very well , it is of no monetary cost , it is simple , it can be done almost anywhere and can provide a good deal of immediate relief.

Bill


Hi Bill,

Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed the post.
Most if not all HiTers will get low back pain sooner or later. I'm trying to make my posts count or be important and educational at the same time. I'm trying to mentor several young lifters right now, and I hope this post can help the readers here.

I know that you know, one of the legacies Mr. Jones will leave us with is his concern for the healthiness of the low back. No one can say that Mr. Jones did not care about this most important aspect of the public's health, and care mightily.

All HiTers should take it upon themselves to be experts on the low back. As all can see, Arthur Jones did.
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