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Steroids In 1954?
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Acerimmer1

Read this! I know this has been discussed previously. It suggests that Grimek (past his prime) was experimenting with steroids out of curiosity in 1954. I had heard Pearl admitted using D-Bol in 57 this is in line with that time frame I suppose.


http://www.aafla.org/...01/jsh2001b.pdf
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Mark S

Copy and paste

Until 1935, no one knew that anabolic steroids were associated
with the accumulation of muscle tissue. In that year, two
researchers experimenting on dogs discovered that testosterone
given under certain conditions would increase muscle mass.(1,2)
Hitler may have given some of his troops anabolic steroids to
increase their aggressiveness, although this is not well-
documented.(3)

The current history of anabolic steroids as abusable drugs
began in 1954 among Olympic weightlifters.(1,2,4)
In 1956, Dianabol (Methandrostenolone) was first marketed in the
United States, clearing the way for the use of anabolics by U. S.
athletes.(4) At first, only world-class athletes in high-
strength sports such as weight lifting abused anabolics.(5,6)
Among Olympic athletes, anabolic steroids were a problem as long
ago as 1964.(6) Athletes and their trainers developed high dose,
multiple-drug regimens that were not based on scientific
research. These methods of use were passed by word of mouth from
one training group to another. Even today, the use of many types
of steroids in high doses has never been examined in controlled
scientific studies.(5)
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medici

Spain

Acerimmer1 wrote:
Read this! I know this has been discussed previously. It suggests that Grimek (past his prime) was experimenting with steroids out of curiosity in 1954. I had heard Pearl admitted using D-Bol in 57 this is in line with that time frame I suppose.


http://www.aafla.org/...01/jsh2001b.pdf


Fair included Grimek's use of steroids in his comprehensive history of the York Barbell Club/York Barbell Company, entitled Muscletown USA. He cites letters from Grimke in that book.

Pearl admitted to using a steroid provided by a veternarian scientist at the University of Cali9fornia Davis back in 1957, more likely akin to equipose than dianobol.

I believe dianobol was developed, or at least initially experimented with, by Dr John Zeigler with funding from Hoffman/York. Subjects included Louis Reicke and Bill March, both Olympic lifters. Zeigler pulled out in disgust since lifters came to the conclusion that if a little bit works so well then take more - more than the prescribed dosage.

I've always wondered if Vern Weaver, also of York, was not also using it. His Mr America "victory" over Harold Poole disgusted many fans at that time, in part due to the blatant racism of the AAU - which was under Hoffman's control. Weaver later committed suicide, while Poole went over to Hoffman's arch-rival, Joe Weider and his newly founded IFBB. The rest is history. Unfortunate history at that.

I have no idea what Grimek was using, possibly an early version of dianobol, since it was a liquid consumed orally. He was a short term user.

T.C. Luoma, editor of T-Nation and formerly of MM2000, told me of seeing Grimek work out around 1993, then in his 80s, at the time of one of the Old Timers gatherings in San Diego. Grimek did three sets of twelve in the very deep "ass to grass" style of old timer squats, using a hefty 350 at an advanced age.

In his prime, The Glow was drug free since the drugs weren't around then. Hoffman relunctantly underwrote experimentation only after Zeigler convinced him that the Soviet lead since the early 50s in Olympic lifting rested on steroid use.

Statements that Soviet training rested on reading Weider magazines is a half-truth. In fact, they also read all of Hoffman's works! More significantly, they benefitted from the Soviet Hidden Human Reserve project's findings on voluntary control of autonomic nervous system functions, concentration and visualization methods still foreign to American training.
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medici

Spain

MARK SUFFOLK wrote:
Copy and paste

Until 1935, no one knew that anabolic steroids were associated
with the accumulation of muscle tissue. In that year, two
researchers experimenting on dogs discovered that testosterone
given under certain conditions would increase muscle mass.(1,2)
Hitler may have given some of his troops anabolic steroids to
increase their aggressiveness, although this is not well-
documented.(3)

The current history of anabolic steroids as abusable drugs
began in 1954 among Olympic weightlifters.(1,2,4)
In 1956, Dianabol (Methandrostenolone) was first marketed in the
United States, clearing the way for the use of anabolics by U. S.
athletes.(4) At first, only world-class athletes in high-
strength sports such as weight lifting abused anabolics.(5,6)
Among Olympic athletes, anabolic steroids were a problem as long
ago as 1964.(6) Athletes and their trainers developed high dose,
multiple-drug regimens that were not based on scientific
research. These methods of use were passed by word of mouth from
one training group to another. Even today, the use of many types
of steroids in high doses has never been examined in controlled
scientific studies.(5)


Very true. Thanks to Bill Phillip's Muscle Media 2000 magazine of the 90s, authors such as the late Dan Duchaine took to publishing virtual "how-to" manuals along with selling books on stacking, etc. Just what the public needed - including high school kids.

I still hold to changing Mr Olympia to Mr Pharmacopia, with the drug companies sponsoring it along with doing in-detail studies of drug usage, longevity of athletes, diseases developed, post-mortem reports, etc. Otherwise we perpetuate the culture of The Big Lie, like alcoholic family networks firmly in denial.

Yes, by 1964 drugs were booming. First steroids, then over training, then use of meth for "more energy". Craig Whitehead, a MD, along with his wife actually shot up their home with guns due to meth induced paranoia of hidden microphones! His community service sentence made him physician to the Grateful Dead - from the frying pan into the fire.

As Muscletown USA reports, next came lsd. Bob Bernarski attempted a huge world record snatch in the 1969 Pan Am games. Sequence photos show him in the deep snatch, with frame by frame depiction of a profound elbow dislocation. He'd dropped acid before the competition started. And ruined his career.

In the 60s and 70s steroids became the gateway to all sorts of drug abuse. Cocaine was a favorite in bodybuilding competition in that it heighted vascularity on stage.

For my part, my last contest was the California State Powerlifting Championships in Fresno in 64. I was 20 then and saw no future in competing against drugs, and no desire to ruin my life by taking them Health and fitness were the driving force in training for me, not destroying myself for narcistic purposes.

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JimBryan

Florida, USA

http://musclesmokeandmirrors.c...


First volume will be available at the end of this year. I think the Steroid thing will be in this volume.

Kayo, did Randy ever interview you? Sounds like you have a good deal of inside info.
Craig and I were friends and sometime training partners. I was active in this time frame and watched how the "Sport" changed. And how the people changed.
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Growl

I think the info regarding steroids in this thread is accurate. It's frustrating to see on some forums kids arguing that steroids were invented in the 1930's and therefore all were on them. I have read enough to believe the years mentioned here to be accurate.

The US olympic team found out about them around 1954 and they weren't available to US bodybuilders until the late 50's. I would love a book that documented all. Right now, it's hard to prove but if you research enough, those years keep coming up.

Good work guys,
Jeff
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medici

Spain

JimBryan wrote:
http://musclesmokeandmirrors.c...


First volume will be available at the end of this year. I think the Steroid thing will be in this volume.

Kayo, did Randy ever interview you? Sounds like you have a good deal of inside info.
Craig and I were friends and sometime training partners. I was active in this time frame and watched how the "Sport" changed. And how the people changed.


Talked with Randy for a couple of hours about a year ago. His article on the Weston Price Foundation site about the history of protein got us connected. Fascinating guy. I genuinely look forward to release of his book. It ought to have a sobering effect on many younger people about all the fads - supplements, training methods, you name it.

Iron Game Historical Quarterly, published by the Todd-McLean Physical Culture archives (Jan and Terry Todd) at university of Texas Austin is another great eye opener.

Since the orientation of the "fitness" industry is "now now now", it does that to distract gaining any comprehension of our history and culture - simply to sell the latest and greatest repeat fads. An historical sense of the irongame is fabulous therapy for being gullible.

Same goes for Dr Darden's latest book.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

Didn't Zeigler change his name to Johnson and start selling supplements ? Wasn't he " Rheo Blair " ?
Anybody know anything about this ?

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JimBryan

Florida, USA

The thing about Randy is he referenced and cross referenced everything. This book will cause some controversy but it will also expose some facts not brought out before now.
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marcrph

Spain

Bill Sekerak wrote:
Didn't Zeigler change his name to Johnson and start selling supplements ? Wasn't he " Rheo Blair " ?
Anybody know anything about this ?



Hi Bill,

Hope you are doing well!

The answer to who Rheo Blair was is in the following:

http://www.westonaprice.org/...dspecimens.html
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marcrph

Spain

JimBryan wrote:
The thing about Randy is he referenced and cross referenced everything. This book will cause some controversy but it will also expose some facts not brought out before now.


I am looking forward to this book!

I look forward to the controversies within this book!

Thanks for the reminder!

Marc
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

marcrph wrote:
Bill Sekerak wrote:
Didn't Zeigler change his name to Johnson and start selling supplements ? Wasn't he " Rheo Blair " ?
Anybody know anything about this ?



Hi Bill,

Hope you are doing well!

The answer to who Rheo Blair was is in the following:

http://www.westonaprice.org/...dspecimens.html


I am doing OK , thanks. Yes , I remembered that Irvin Johnson and Rheo Blair were one and the same about an hour after I posted the question. I know I havve an old IronMan with an ad with Zeigler in it , I can't remember what he was selling, but I will look for it over the next week or so.

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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

I am lucky enough to train with Randy almost every Saturday and have had the privelege to hear a couple chapters thus far. It is going to be an amazing book.

The chapter comparing Gironda to AJ was a real eye opener for me. The biggest thing I believe this book is going to address is diet for bodybuilders and for anyone else who wants to be healthy. I consulted with Randy on the subject of how these lifters back in the day put on so much muscle with no steroids and worked out for so many hours.
His answers seemed unbelievable at the time and without ruining any of the book, what he taught me fly's very much against what is taught in the Nautilus diet.
His final presentation is going to change the game for anyone who reads it.

Im waiting in line for a copy.

Michael
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marcrph

Spain

bigmikep wrote:
I am lucky enough to train with Randy almost every Saturday and have had the privelege to hear a couple chapters thus far. It is going to be an amazing book.

The chapter comparing Gironda to AJ was a real eye opener for me. The biggest thing I believe this book is going to address is diet for bodybuilders and for anyone else who wants to be healthy. I consulted with Randy on the subject of how these lifters back in the day put on so much muscle with no steroids and worked out for so many hours.
His answers seemed unbelievable at the time and without ruining any of the book, what he taught me fly's very much against what is taught in the Nautilus diet.
His final presentation is going to change the game for anyone who reads it.

Im waiting in line for a copy.

Michael


bigmikerep,

Tell us more! Just kidding!

Please tell him his article "Splendid Specimens," In Weston A. Price Foundation is a real jewel.
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marcrph

Spain

More on Mr. Roach.

bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson159.htm
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marcrph

Spain

I have been telling everyone about coconut milk with pineapple and protein for quite a while now.

Randy Roach has interviewed Mike Brown.

Note this old school fix.

www.leviticus11.com/i4ptt.htm
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Splendid Specimens is a great article. Randy told me that orginally this book was just going to be an article. However he has talked to so many people and has put together so much information that it has just grown.

Speaking of growing, in the Splendid Specimens article read about what Don Howorth ate to put on size. Think its crazy? I did. Now Im up to 222lbs and currently eating 12 raw eggs each day. quart of cream every 2 days, 1lb of raw red meat and 48oz raw milk everyday. Never been stronger or felt healthier.

Michael
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medici

Spain

Bill Sekerak wrote:
Didn't Zeigler change his name to Johnson and start selling supplements ? Wasn't he " Rheo Blair " ?
Anybody know anything about this ?



Irvin Johnson, at the advise of a numerologist, changed his name to Rheo H. Blair. He manufactured the first milk and egg protein, neither Weider nor Hoffman would sell advertising space to him, leaving it only to that open forum for discussion, Iron Man Magazine, to do so.

It was excellent protein for the times, recommended to be mixed with unpasturized raw dairy cream! Melted the fat and built the muscles - as in Dave Draper's amazing transformation from pudgy to ripped.

Ziegler was an MD, one who gave up on experimenting with dianobol among weight athletes because of their behavior.
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medici

Spain

bigmikep wrote:
I am lucky enough to train with Randy almost every Saturday and have had the privelege to hear a couple chapters thus far. It is going to be an amazing book.

The chapter comparing Gironda to AJ was a real eye opener for me. The biggest thing I believe this book is going to address is diet for bodybuilders and for anyone else who wants to be healthy. I consulted with Randy on the subject of how these lifters back in the day put on so much muscle with no steroids and worked out for so many hours.
His answers seemed unbelievable at the time and without ruining any of the book, what he taught me fly's very much against what is taught in the Nautilus diet.
His final presentation is going to change the game for anyone who reads it.

Im waiting in line for a copy.

Michael


That would be fun and informative reading, especially with Randy's penetrating insight and lack of allegiance to anything but truth and analysis. Is it in circulation somewhere or forthcoming (now only mss)?
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marcrph

Spain

bigmikep wrote:
Splendid Specimens is a great article. Randy told me that orginally this book was just going to be an article. However he has talked to so many people and has put together so much information that it has just grown.

Speaking of growing, in the Splendid Specimens article read about what Don Howorth ate to put on size. Think its crazy? I did. Now Im up to 222lbs and currently eating 12 raw eggs each day. quart of cream every 2 days, 1lb of raw red meat and 48oz raw milk everyday. Never been stronger or felt healthier.

Michael


Michael,

You simply have been holding out on us!

Do you switch to vegetables every so often?

You should really try the coconut milk, pineapple juice, banana, milk and eggs protein powder after a workout. That is an eye opening experience on post workout nutrition. HiT seems to want to work out the old school way, but resist the old school way of eating.
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OSAKA/J

marcrph wrote:
bigmikep wrote:
Splendid Specimens is a great article. Randy told me that orginally this book was just going to be an article. However he has talked to so many people and has put together so much information that it has just grown.

Speaking of growing, in the Splendid Specimens article read about what Don Howorth ate to put on size. Think its crazy? I did. Now Im up to 222lbs and currently eating 12 raw eggs each day. quart of cream every 2 days, 1lb of raw red meat and 48oz raw milk everyday. Never been stronger or felt healthier.

Michael

Michael,

You simply have been holding out on us!

Do you switch to vegetables every so often?

You should really try the coconut milk, pineapple juice, banana, milk and eggs protein powder after a workout. That is an eye opening experience on post workout nutrition. HiT seems to want to work out the old school way, but resist the old school way of eating.


Michael,

Just wondering about your concerns re:
the presence of avidin, which deactivates the biotin in the egg. When I was younger (I'm 45 now) I used to eat about 6-8 raw eggs a day, mixed
in a blender with protein powder, milk
and a banana. (The protein powder then
wasn't very good, but the milk and
banana made up for it...). Anyway, I
read that raw eggs have the potential
to rob your body of biotin, and that
usually shows up in the skin (making
it pasty-looking and dry). I never
had that problem, but some guys I know
did. What do you know about this
potential problem?

Regards,

Osaka/J
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Hello Kayo, to my knowledge there is no where you can yet read the chapter on Vince and AJ. For those who don't know Randy is blind so he has a computer that reads out what he types. He allowed me to listen to it in his house. His book should be out soon and from what I have been allowed to see is going to be amazing.

Ofcourse I eat vegetables. lol. They are just added to all the other calories. I have not switched to an all akaline diet for a short period like Vince suggests, atleast not yet. I feel very good right now and listen to my body.

Randy has told me several times about getting some coconut oil or just eating a whole cocunut. I need to get around to doing it. He is a big fan of avacado to.

OSAKA/J I have not experienced such problems with Raw eggs. I will consult with Randy on the question you expressed. I recently read a study that suggested there is almost no limit to the amount of eggs the body can assimilate in a day. The only limit being how many you can eat before feeling full. I would always suggest eating organic eggs from free range chickens aswell.

Michael

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marcrph

Spain

OSAKA/J wrote:
Michael,

Just wondering about your concerns re:
the presence of avidin, which deactivates the biotin in the egg. When I was younger (I'm 45 now) I used to eat about 6-8 raw eggs a day, mixed
in a blender with protein powder, milk
and a banana. (The protein powder then
wasn't very good, but the milk and
banana made up for it...). Anyway, I
read that raw eggs have the potential
to rob your body of biotin, and that
usually shows up in the skin (making
it pasty-looking and dry). I never
had that problem, but some guys I know
did. What do you know about this
potential problem?

Regards,

Osaka/J


http://www.mercola.com/.../9/raw_eggs.htm
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medici

Spain

OSAKA/J wrote:


Just wondering about your concerns re:
the presence of avidin, which deactivates the biotin in the egg. When I was younger (I'm 45 now) I used to eat about 6-8 raw eggs a day, mixed
in a blender with protein powder, milk
and a banana. (The protein powder then
wasn't very good, but the milk and
banana made up for it...). Anyway, I
read that raw eggs have the potential
to rob your body of biotin, and that
usually shows up in the skin (making
it pasty-looking and dry). I never
had that problem, but some guys I know
did. What do you know about this
potential problem?

Regards,

Osaka/J


Don't know if this adds anything or will be of use. Blair and Vince Gironda shared many clients in common (Larry Scott being the leader of the pack), and shared many ideas in common - there is a suggestion they traded ideas but will not be sold bold as to suggest they worked together.

Both advocated using Blair's milk/egg protein with raw, unpasturized dairy cream, a cherry extract (as I recall), and then betaine hydrochloric acid tabs. With that, Vince was adamant about not mixing protein in a blender: he claimed the blender cut the cream to too small units for proper use.

I have not idea of the correctness of that notion, particulary with 40 years of nutritional science separating us from his time.

HCl is another matter. I'd all but forgotten that one until Charles Poloquin published a piece on T-Nation about a year ago advocating its use and telling of experiments he'd done with athletes he coaches.

Apparently proteins digest very slowly, hence bio-availability in the blood stream is far lower than we'd guess (other than whey). For example, cooked eggs uptake less than three grams per hour. He reports by use of betaine HCl better protein usage resulting in packing on ten pounds or so of muscle within four to six weeks. I posted to Supertraining about that, only to have a rash of gastroenterologists pitch a fit.

Would appreciate any insight any of y'all can offer.
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Hello Kayo,

The man to talk to on this subject would once again be Randy. Not sure if you are still in contact with him or not. I have not come up with a question about nutrition that he has not been able to give me a very insightful answer to.

Personally I don't think you can follow anyone diet exactly because what works for me may be terrible for you or anyone else. This is why I don't discredit the Nautilus diet. I could not gain on it, and had a hard time keeping lean with all those carbs but there are studies to show it works for other people.

Best advice, experiment with a few different things and see what works.

Michael
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