MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle


Bob Marchesello
Lost 23.55 lbs fat
Built 8.55 lbs muscle


Jeff Turner
Lost 25.5 lbs fat


Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
Built 3 lbs muscle


Ted Tucker
Lost 41 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle

 
 

Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


ARCHIVES >>

"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

Mission Statement

H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy

Privacy Policy

Credits

LOG IN FORUM MAIN REGISTER SEARCH
Jeff Turner: "I Want to Get Lean."
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next | Last
Author
Rating
Options

Ellington Darden, Ph.D.

Jeff Turner: "I Want to Get Lean."


Jeff Turner is an old friend from my days at Nautilus. He sold Nautilus equipment for 11 years, primarily in the Pacific Northwest, and was positively influenced by Arthur Jones and his writings. Today, he owns a one-to-one facility called Abstract Bodyworks in Olympia, Washington.

Recently, Jeff phoned and said he and his family would be spending two weeks at the Walt Disney Resort in Orlando in early December and he wanted to check out my Intensive-Coaching plan. Great, I replied, and we set up a date on December 6, 2007.

"I want to get lean," Jeff said as he arrived in a rented car. "I've got at least 20 pounds of fat that needs to come off."

"Sounds to me like you've got your act together," I replied. "Why do you need me?"

"I just can't seem to do it on my own," Jeff said shaking his head. "Like you said in 'The Secret,' I need someone to be accountable to."

I understood what Jeff meant, as I led him to my private gym and office.


A LOOK BACK

Briefly, my mind wandered back to 1986, when Jeff initially visited Nautilus Sports/Medical Industries in Lake Helen. At that time he was actively involved in hardcore bodybuilding. After answering several related questions for him, I asked him to take off his shirt and hit a few poses.

As I eyeballed carefully each of his major muscles — from the front, side, and back, both contracted and relaxed — I declared that I had a solution to his desire to reach the top level in bodybuilding competitions. "Your next time around," I said, "pick your parents differently. Select parents who are taller, leaner, and have extremely long muscles throughout their bodies."

Then, I said: "Jeff, on a bodybuilding scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being very poor genetics, 5 being average, and 10 being very good or great genetics, your overall score is a 6 in some muscles and a 7 in others. It's above average, but several notches below the level that is required to win bodybuilding championships.

"Yes, Jeff, you can get bigger and stronger, but you're never going to look like Franco Columbu (Jeff admired Franco's physique)."

Some bodybuilders would get mad, become defensive, and leave my office upset — and a few did just that — but not Jeff Turner. Jeff picked my brain for another hour and wanted to know more about genetic potential.

We were both laughing as we remembered that encounter some 21 years ago.

"Overall," Jeff said in a sincere manner, "your blunt honesty saved me thousands of hours of training time and mounds of money that I would have wasted trying to compete. You opened the high-intensity door to me in a realistic manner, which motivated me eventually to establish my personal-training business."


THE HERE AND NOW

Jeff is almost 48 years old. He's been training since he was 19. When I met him in 1986 he was exercising 2 hours a day, six times per week. Since then, however, he's been a basic HIT man. Rarely do any of his workouts last longer than 15 minutes.

Even though Jeff had a good handle on HIT, he still felt like he could use some brushing up on the finer points, as well as motivation to do what he already knows he needs to do.

To get things rolling for Jeff in his Intensive-Coaching plan, I did a series of body measurements. He was 5'6" tall and weighed 207 pounds. His percent body fat was 22.7. Both of us felt like he could lose 25 pounds of fat and, within 90 days, get down to the 12-percent level — which was a realistic goal for his age, background, and day-to-day business schedule.

Another important measurement was the circumference of the waist. I took three positions on Jeff's midsection: 2 inches above the navel, at the navel level, and 2 inches below the navel. Those numbers were as follows:

It will be meaningful to watch the reductions at those waistline levels.


RELAXED VS. CONTRACTED

One old-school test I did with Jeff, which many readers will find interesting, was the comparison measurements of hanging and contracted upper arms. These two measurements provide a record of leanness. If you are losing fat and getting leaner, then the different between your relaxed and contracted upper arm will gradually increase week to week.

If you want to do the test, it's more accurate to have someone do the measurements for you. Take the measurements "cold." Here are the techniques to apply:

Relaxed-arm position.

Contracted-arm position.

If you're getting leaner, the differences between your relaxed and contracted upper-arm measurements will get greater. If you are getting fatter, the differences between the two will get smaller.

The reason one goes up and the other goes down is the fact that . . . you can't flex fat! Only muscle contains contractile tissue.

Most of your noncontractile fat is stored directly under your skin, with thicker layers around your hips and midsection. When your percentage of fat is reduced, it's reduced from all over your body.

Jeff's relaxed upper arm was 15-5/8 inches and his contracted upper arm was 17-1/8 inches — for a difference of 1-1/2 inches. From the last photo above, you should be able to see that Jeff has a rather short biceps muscles and much longer-than-average triceps. Also, it should be evident that he has a lot of muscle under his subcutaneous fat.

The largest difference I've ever measured was on the arm of Casey Viator, who won the 1971 AAU Mr. America. Casey's right arm was 17-1/8 inches relaxed and 19-5/16 inches contracted — which amounted to 2-1/4 inches between the two numbers.

By keeping accurate records of the differences between your relaxed and contracted arms measurements, you now have a simple way to monitor your leanness and fatness.


FLANAGAN'S GYM AND VINTAGE MACHINES

Later that day, Jeff drove over to Jim Flanagan's for a workout. Jim has a gym loaded with vintage Nautilus and MedX equipment. In Olympia, Washington, Jeff has some similar equipment in his gym. Big Jim, with his all-out style, pushed Jeff through a heck-of-a workout. Jeff may want to share some of his thoughts about it in the follow-up.

Afterward, Jeff and I organized two workouts for him to follow back home in Olympia. I want him to alternate his A and B routines, twice a week for three consecutive weeks. After doing each routine three times, I'll evaluate his status and, depending on his progress, continue or make changes.

Here are the Intensive-Coaching A and B routines that I designed for Jeff:

A Routine

1. Nautilus hip extension
2. MedX leg extension
3. MedX leg curl
4. MedX lateral raise
5. MedX overhead press
6. Nautilus pullover
7. MedX abdominal

B Routine

1. MedX leg press
2. Nautilus 10-degree chest
3. MedX chest press
4. MedX torso arm pulldown
5. Nautilus triceps
6. Nautilus biceps
7. MedX rotary torso


"I WANT TO GET LEAN"

Of course, part of Jeff's responsibility will be to lower his daily caloric intake to 1,500 and start drinking at least a gallon of cold water each day.

Part of my Intensive-Coaching job is to keep Jeff's motivation at a high level so he can reach his goal of weighing 182 pounds by March 1, 2008. He has another Orlando, Florida, trip planned in March and I will personally do his follow-up measurements and evaluations.

Until then, we'll provide periodic updates on Jeff's progress and answer questions related to his quest for leanness.

Discuss this article | Text Version

simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Hey Doc,

Could you walk us through your thought processes on the exercise selection for Jeff's regimen?

It appears you have only 2 compound exercises (out of 7) per workout. Is this to keep CNS stress at a minimum whilst one is dieting?

In addition, these are not your "typical" whole-body routines. The chest, front & side delts, and upper arms are only worked directly once a week. Have you been experimenting with the WB-Split hybrid for a while now?

It's interesting stuff and fits in with what I've been trying the last several months myself.

What are your thoughts about the use of set intensifiers (drops, stage reps, rest-pause, etc.) while one is dieting? Is it a flat-out no-no or just something to use with relative low frequency?

Thanks for more great food-for-thought!

Regards,
Scott
Open User Options Menu

BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA

Jeff, if you on-line at this board OR, maybe, Dr. Darden can answer:

I remember meeting you (meaning, Jeff) a couple of times at SuperSlow events. If I recall correctly, you were even modifying cams with radical fall-off for the SuperSlow Protocol. Besides that, I remember that you were pleasant to talk with, which is sometimes rare among weight-trainers, AND you had some interesting behind-the-scenes information about the making of Nautilus equipment, since you worked there!

Considering that you have likely moved on from SuperSlow, I have a few questions. How long did you train in the SuperSlow fashion and what was the reason you stopped? Do you still use your radical fall-off cams; if not, what did you replace them with? Any other thoughts about SuperSlow that might enlighten us?

To you and your families, All My Best and Merry Christmas!


Sincerely,

Benny Anthony
Kansas City, Missouri
Open User Options Menu

Ellington Darden

Scott,

Jeff has access to 19 Nautilus and MedX machines, most of which have been adapted to use in a super-slow style. Also, he wants to train his whole body and not split it up -- which I agree is best for overall fat-loss results.

We both felt like seven exercises were appropriate for each of his A and B routines -- at least, at first. I'll watch his progress closely for three weeks and make adjustments if necessary.

Concerning set extenders: There's too much stress already, when a person starts dieting, to add MORE to his already busy lifestyle. My goal right now is to send signals to his system (by establishing consistency) that everything is alright. I may consider set extenders later, after several months, but not at the beginning.

Ellington
Open User Options Menu

BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA

Dr. Darden,

That is interesting about Jeff Turner/s workout, especially his inclusion of SuperSlow and any modifications that he is employing to those machines.

Although I like reading criticism and I give my fair share of criticism, I still think SuperSlow has a big place in training (perhaps, not for all populations, as once concieved); nevertheless, it is worthwhile in perfecting and I very much enjoy reading where trainers and trainees have adapted and changed SuperSlow (as well as its precepts), although positive improvements appear to be more and more rare on these boards.

With that stated, I am very taken with JReps, which now I look back at Arthur Jones style of HIT and your concepts in your Nautilus books, there is much merit that, perhaps, SuperSlow overlooked, albeit with some thoughtfulness in the SuperSlow literature. For instance, did you know that Brian Johnston had some positive things to say about the ONE & FOURTH REPETITIONS that you promoted in your 1980s books? Recently, I have thought about what Johnston has written on the subject, I have thought that there is a kinship to Arthur Jones PRE-STRETCH notion, albeit some applied it too violently as Ken Hutchins correctly observed in his SuperSlow Technical Manual.

Anyway, that is the long way around the mulberry bush to a question that I just considered to ask you. Minus the violent movements some employed, was there a relationship between PRE-STRETCH and THE ONE & FOURTH REPETITIONS in the inception of the latter method? Considering that what physiologists claim to know about cross-bridging and certain muscle-fibers only full activating during a brief RANGE-OF-MOTION, what are your thoughts on PRE-STRETCH and ONE & FOURTH REPS.?

Also, I feel both enthusiastic and intrigued that you are re-implementing your STAGE REPS with your recent prescription to David Landau's arm routine; after all, I read where your personal posting on JReps that you possess the Johnston book(s) and you were considering once again your STAGE REPS. Not really a question in this last paragraph, but I wanted to comment that I would be very interested in reading (and purchasing any books) on the subject after you learn more from your experiences training individuals with whatever you come up with in way of STAGE REPS and/or JReps. Certainly, I am sure many in the JRep camp would read anything that you have to say on the subject, as I know many of them own a great number of your books and I am certainly one of them.

Merry Christmas to you and your family!


Sincerely,

Benny Anthony
Kansas City, Missouri


Open User Options Menu

Al Coleman

Ohio, USA

Benny,

I'm not Jeff, but according to his website, he still trains all his clients in SuperSlow fashion.

Al
Open User Options Menu

Ellington Darden

Jeff Turner will perform both of his A and B routines in the super-slow style that he applies with all of his trainees in Olympia, Washington.

Jeff can share his specific instructions in more detail.

Ellington
Open User Options Menu

Ellington Darden

Benny,

I understand what you're asking, but I didn't connect the two (pre-stretching and 1-1/4 reps) when 1-1/4 reps were being developed some 30 years ago. At that time, we were simply trying to strengthen the most contracted position.

Ellington
Open User Options Menu

admnautilus

Washington, USA

Hi Benny,
I would like to answer your questions. I do remember meeting you also. I still train slow, and in fact have been training that way for over 20 years. I have two studios and train all our clients in the same slow fashion. The changes we see are remarkable.

I am looking forward to Dr.Darden's intensive Coaching. The problem that I have, and would think alot of us out there have is, who will help to keep me accountable? Like Dr. Darden I truly believe that you can't work yourself out!-sure you can get a good workout once in a while but not consistently. Just like my clients, I need someone to overview my training.

I don't like wasting my time in the club so with Dr. Darden's help, I will re-invigorate my training time for the most change.Plus with Ellington's nutritional help I will be as lean as I was 25 years ago!!
By the way I still change cam profile to make the equipment as efficient as possible for our speed of movement. Take a look at my studio website if you would like more. It is at abstractbodyworks.com
Open User Options Menu

simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

admnautilus wrote:
Hi Benny,
I would like to answer your questions. I do remember meeting you also. I still train slow, and in fact have been training that way for over 20 years. I have two studios and train all our clients in the same slow fashion. The changes we see are remarkable...


Thanks for joining us, Jeff. I am curious as to what TUL range(s) you are using with most of your clients?

How about yourself?

Variations with age and/or experience?

Best of Luck,
Scott
Open User Options Menu

spud

Jeff,

Do you perform your reps at 10/10 cadence?

If so, how long do your sets last?

I'm guessing 40-80 seconds which would be 2-4 reps. Is this correct?

Open User Options Menu

BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA


Jeff and Everyone,

Thank you for your answers, as I certainly will be checking out Jeff/s website. Hope to read more from Jeff along the way of Dr. Darden keeping him honest, to use his words!

Again, Happy Holidays!




Open User Options Menu

admnautilus

Washington, USA

Hi Simon-Hecubus, Spud,

We train toward 10/10 but if we see 8/8 that is close enough.we are looking to limit force and momentum to increase muscle work but we don't get bogged down with speed. We try to kep the resistance heavy enough to keep reps to around 3-6.

One of the main reasons for working with Dr.Dardens is to increase my knowledge and use his expertise in personal training to enhance what we do for our clients.

Arthur Jones is not around so the best source for info for me is Dr. Darden. As we progress through these next three months, I hope to glean some insights in nutrition, intensity, and motovation that will help make Abstract a much better place to train.

Jeff
Open User Options Menu

bweav

I'm interested in the superslow training style, as the slowest rep speed I've ever used is 5/5.

It seems like there's quite a difference between the weight used for three reps vs. six. How do you determine which you're going for on each exercise? Lower reps on Leg and Chest press, higher for curls?

Do you still try to keep time between sets to a minimum?
Open User Options Menu

marktb

Personally, I wouldn't waste your time with anyone slower than 5/5 and even that is "too slow" in my opinion. In fact, I worked in a SS clinic for a year and the clients got zero results and I think the Master TRainer was too concerned about the speed than fatiguing the muscles. When I allowed my clients to just be in complete control, i.e. roughly 4/4 speed, their progress was noticeably improved. I didn't last too long there after that.

Mark Baldwin
Open User Options Menu

john38

Oklahoma, USA

bweav wrote:
I'm interested in the superslow training style, as the slowest rep speed I've ever used is 5/5.

It seems like there's quite a difference between the weight used for three reps vs. six. How do you determine which you're going for on each exercise? Lower reps on Leg and Chest press, higher for curls?

Do you still try to keep time between sets to a minimum?



If you're going this slow, then you're not working out, your practicing counting. Forget this slow crap. It does no good and can actually hurt you in the long run.
Open User Options Menu

admnautilus

Washington, USA

To All,
As far as rep speed goes there are other threads to discuss this. This thread as far as I am concerned will deal with my progress over time with Dr. Darden's help.

So I will only answer on this subject one time. To those who believe they should move faster- have at it.

If you want proof about how effective slow training is pick up Dr. Darden's books such as: A flat stomach ASAP or Six Week Fat to Muscle Makeover. These use slow training only and Dr. Darden seems to have produced some impressive results.

I don't need anyone telling me whether slow training works or not. I have plenty of proof of my own. At my two studios I have trained over 700(some for over 8 years) different clients and not one has ever not improved dramaticly. Here are just 3 examples-

1)Justin an 18 year old college football player. In just 7 weeks he gained 22lbs of muscle going from just 213 pounds to over 235 pounds. His total training time was under 3 hours.

2) Dave M -A bodybuider who wanted to gain some size in a short amount of time- Dave is 6'4" and his starting weight was 253lbs. in only 7 weeks of slow traing he gained 22.5 lbs of muscle and lost 1% body fat. He also improved his overall body measurments by over 4 inches. Total training time? 2hours and 12 minutes.

3) Quaint D. -A recent client at 61 years of age. In only 10 workouts, Quaint has improved her starting strength by 66%. Her total time of training is 2 hours and 20 minutes.

However you train really doesn't matter- its about the stimulus.People need to train intensly-with enough weight to cause the body to respond. No amount of easy work will produce change, no matter what your speed is. If your are not training hard enough why should your body make changes?. Thats it.

As Arthur said "Train hard -train brief and when in doubt about speed? Move slower.

Also on one side note:Dr Wayne Westcott also thought that training faster was better until he did the research. Not only did he find that his clients got 50% better strength results but that their lean tissue increases were far greater.

Dr.Wayne by the way, did the research twice to make sure it was not a fluke. So here we have 2 PHD's that found slow training more productive than fast training- I believe that I will take their word over someone on the web!

That is enough said about whether or not slow training works!
Open User Options Menu

admnautilus

Washington, USA

I started my diet today-12-17-07. I am looking forward to weeks end for weigh in. Dr. Darden has set some very reasonable goals for me. So I hope to lose around 10 lbs. by Jan. 1st, 2008.

Of course he has me doing some extra little things to help me reach that goal. We will see. Jeff
Open User Options Menu

sgsims1

admnautilus wrote:

Of course he has me doing some extra little things to help me reach that goal. We will see. Jeff



such as?
Open User Options Menu

Ciccio

sgsims1 wrote:
admnautilus wrote:

Of course he has me doing some extra little things to help me reach that goal. We will see. Jeff


such as?


I'm interested as well.

And well said, Jeff. Try to ignore the haters (I know myself how difficult this is!).
I wish you good luck and work HARD!

Regards,

Franco



Open User Options Menu

Ellington Darden

Jeff's extra little things . . .

The main ones were to:

Don't skip meals,
Practice superhydration,
Go to bed an hour earlier each night.

Ellington

Open User Options Menu

Tom Traynor

Ellington Darden wrote:
Jeff's extra little things . . .

The main ones were to:

Don't skip meals,
Practice superhydration,
Go to bed an hour earlier each night.

Ellington



With due respect--those things shouldn't be "extra". They should be part and parcel of living longer , stronger and leaner--a lifelong pursuit. Oh--and fish oil.

Good luck Jeff--Well, actually it isn't "luck". DO these things and it happens. Never a mystery in this.

Open User Options Menu

admnautilus

Washington, USA

Saturday,12/22/07: End of week weigh in!! I weighed this A.M.(same as always) and found that I have lost 5.1 pounds. I know that losses will slow now but feel good about the quick start. Dr. Darden's extras have helped me jump sart the fat loss! Yeh! If this keeps up it won't take 90 days to lose 25 lbs.
Jeff
Open User Options Menu

trojanhammer

Georgia, USA

I am 42(soon to be 43) & have found that getting that extra hour of sleep (7 instead of 6) has made a huge difference in my workouts. I currently train every 3rd day (1 on, 2 off) doing a whole body routine consisting of 12 exercises with good results. Thanks for the site & the Forum.
Open User Options Menu

FiremanBob

This is a great thread; and particularly useful timing in view of all the holiday cheer asking to be eaten everywhere.

I'm 5'10", 195 and I need to lose about 30lbs of fat. Keeping to that 1500 cal. is a challenge. I have two questions:

Where can I find resources to set up an appropriate meal plan?

I was thinking of installing a heavy bag and speed bag in the basement to work on my non-lifting days, or running 2-3 miles on those days to keep the burn rate high. Would either of these make sense? If not, what should I substitute?
Open User Options Menu
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next | Last
H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy