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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Zane's Calves
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Acerimmer1

I heard Mentzer gave Zane a tip that helped him put an inch on his calves in the latter stages of his career I think it was Zane who said this. Anybody know what it was??
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SanDiego

Never heard this... although I would guess it was to perform calf exercise with a frequency in the realm of once every 7-14 days with super high intensity. Mentzer has so many articles on why calves should be trained even less frequently than most body parts due to their daily usage that I can't imagine him recommending anything much different.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Based on the time-frame they were competing together, I don't think MM had come to the 7-14 day frequencies yet.

At that time, he was still training on a 2-way or 3-way split with each mucle group hit twice/week or twice every 8 days.

IF it were at that time (late 70s/early 80s), the advice could have been a number of things:

* Less Sets - Orig HD Courses say 3 sets/workout

* Lower Reps - 8-12 instead of 20-25

* Emphasize the Stretch

* Toe Press (his term) on Vertical Leg Press machine --- no compression of spine and good stretch on calves. Sort of like an upside down Donkey CR

Scott
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Mr. Strong

I think it was a one legged variation of a calf exercise on a piece of equipment, but I can't remember. Its in HIT the MM way I think.
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Mr Flibble

I've got a small herd of dexters and I've found the secret of getting your calves big in a hurry is high quality meadow grass. There's no substitute.

I've found it also increase the milk yield considerably.
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OSAKA/J

To Mr. Flibble's dexters response:


HAHAHAHAHA! Good on you, mate!

As for Zane's calf improvement, yes, I think it was a twisting variety on the one-legged calf raise, done on the multi-machine. He may have varied the speed of the movement, although I'm not sure...Zane said it put about a half-inch or a bit more on his calves very quickly, always credited Mentzer for his "twist" on calf raises...

Osaka/J
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

While I don't know what he might have told Frank, when Mike and I talked about calves, it was always two things:

1) Focus more on stretch and the bottom 1/2 of the movement

2) Push with your big toe, as in try and push with the medial side of the foot
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

BIO-FORCE wrote:
While I don't know what he might have told Frank, when Mike and I talked about calves, it was always two things:

1) Focus more on stretch and the bottom 1/2 of the movement

2) Push with your big toe, as in try and push with the medial side of the foot


Yup , that's the way to do it.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

BIO-FORCE wrote:
While I don't know what he might have told Frank, when Mike and I talked about calves, it was always two things:

1) Focus more on stretch and the bottom 1/2 of the movement

2) Push with your big toe, as in try and push with the medial side of the foot


Guys with small calves almost always do too many reps and too many sets. I like to do calf work NA , but my calves have always been good.

A few months ago I saw a guy in a parking lot walking to a store , he had on a jacket and shorts past his knees and he had the biggest calves I have ever seen in person , and I have seen a lot of BB through the years. He was damn impressive.

I always thought Dickerson had great calves but Platz wins the prize.
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Acerimmer1

BIO-FORCE wrote:
While I don't know what he might have told Frank, when Mike and I talked about calves, it was always two things:

1) Focus more on stretch and the bottom 1/2 of the movement

2) Push with your big toe, as in try and push with the medial side of the foot


Wouldn't that cause pronation? Which mentzer certainly didn't have.
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kurtvf

SanDiego wrote:
Never heard this... although I would guess it was to perform calf exercise with a frequency in the realm of once every 7-14 days with super high intensity. Mentzer has so many articles on why calves should be trained even less frequently than most body parts due to their daily usage that I can't imagine him recommending anything much different.


The funny thing is this is the exact opposite of what Arnie learned from Reg Park. They felt that since you used your calves every day that to make them grow you had to work them more often than other bodyparts with very heavy weights(since each calf lifts bodyweight with each step). This is exactly 180 degrees opposite of Mentzer. Who is correct and why??
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BIO-FORCE

California, USA

Acerimmer1 wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:
While I don't know what he might have told Frank, when Mike and I talked about calves, it was always two things:

1) Focus more on stretch and the bottom 1/2 of the movement

2) Push with your big toe, as in try and push with the medial side of the foot

Wouldn't that cause pronation? Which mentzer certainly didn't have.


I think Mike felt that focusing on the Big Toe side placed stimulus on the lateral (outside) head of the calf.

It was not a big topic of discusion and was talked about in one of those relaxed (laying around the pool in Palm Springs) conversations way back when.

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SanDiego

kurtvf wrote:
SanDiego wrote:
Never heard this... although I would guess it was to perform calf exercise with a frequency in the realm of once every 7-14 days with super high intensity. Mentzer has so many articles on why calves should be trained even less frequently than most body parts due to their daily usage that I can't imagine him recommending anything much different.

The funny thing is this is the exact opposite of what Arnie learned from Reg Park. They felt that since you used your calves every day that to make them grow you had to work them more often than other bodyparts with very heavy weights(since each calf lifts bodyweight with each step). This is exactly 180 degrees opposite of Mentzer. Who is correct and why??


You know, for me, I tend to agree with the Reg Park approach. I had more success with frequent calf training, coupled with periods where I would take a week or two off.

I am not certain of the cause, but I think more frequent training (for me) gave me a chance to get used to the hot searing pain caused by higher rep calf raises. If I only performed them once per week (or less) the pain seemed that much more unbearable.
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Nautilus1975

Do quality calf work until your tailbone is an inferno of pain and your calves will grow or at least define... unless you come from a long line of genetically challenged people with no hope of calf development.


My guess is most people never tolerate the extreme lumbar pain that results from exhaustive calf work to a high enough level to challenge the calf muscles enough to grow.

Donkeys and calf raises are fairly easy with stupid high weight loads, but that work never produced results for me (and others I know) till I pushed it until I had a burn in my tailbone from just calf work. After I hit that point my calves became bizarre in shape and size - still after many years (and older age) the development is extreme.

I read that many body builders were forced to go to implants because of their tiny calves...any truth to this? Not mine :-)



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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

kurtvf wrote:
SanDiego wrote:
Never heard this... although I would guess it was to perform calf exercise with a frequency in the realm of once every 7-14 days with super high intensity. Mentzer has so many articles on why calves should be trained even less frequently than most body parts due to their daily usage that I can't imagine him recommending anything much different.

The funny thing is this is the exact opposite of what Arnie learned from Reg Park. They felt that since you used your calves every day that to make them grow you had to work them more often than other bodyparts with very heavy weights(since each calf lifts bodyweight with each step). This is exactly 180 degrees opposite of Mentzer. Who is correct and why??


Once again Arnold is wrong. Why would you want to work something more when it already gets a lot of submaximal work ? I think twice a week is better because it allows you to keep the soreness away , yet it it is still not overwork. Who knows what Arnold did ? He has already established himself as a compulsive liar. I heard way back when that his calves didn't really start to grow until he began injecting Winsterol.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

kurtvf wrote:
The funny thing is this is the exact opposite of what Arnie learned from Reg Park. They felt that since you used your calves every day that to make them grow you had to work them more often than other bodyparts with very heavy weights(since each calf lifts bodyweight with each step). This is exactly 180 degrees opposite of Mentzer. Who is correct and why??

Bill Sekerak wrote:
Once again Arnold is wrong. Why would you want to work something more when it already gets a lot of submaximal work ? I think twice a week is better because it allows you to keep the soreness away , yet it it is still not overwork. Who knows what Arnold did ? He has already established himself as a compulsive liar. I heard way back when that his calves didn't really start to grow until he began injecting Winsterol.


I totally agree with the first part of what Bill says. Your calves do NOT need more of the same (i.e. high-rep, low intensity work). They need the opposite: Low(er) Reps with High Intensity and Less Frequency.

I don't know about all that injection shit though.

I hit my calves directly once a week with one set of seated or standing CRs. The second workout gives them some crossver work from squats.

Boom. That's it. Nothin' else needed --- except maybe doin' the high-rep deal every once in a while, though you still do one set to the max.

As far as emphasizing the stretch, I've gained some good fullness, striations, and vascularity from following the DoggCrapp CR recommendations...somewhat. DC says hold the stretch for 10-15 seconds. I say somewhat since I've only been doing about 5 seconds and the results are still great.

Scott
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

SanDiego wrote:
You know, for me, I tend to agree with the Reg Park approach. I had more success with frequent calf training, coupled with periods where I would take a week or two off.

I am not certain of the cause, but I think more frequent training (for me) gave me a chance to get used to the hot searing pain caused by higher rep calf raises. If I only performed them once per week (or less) the pain seemed that much more unbearable.


I get a fine "sear" from doing 8-10 reps with a long stretch.

I'm not sure why the frequency would have anything to do with it.
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waynegr

Switzerland

I think as they are used more than another muscle they need high volume, but that?s the only part I would do high volume on.

Like German volume 10 to 15 sets of 10, or 10 to 15 sets of 15.

Mine are stubborn and will not seem to grow, mind you I did add a measly half an inch on them last year, and funny its stayed ??? But have not worked them for over a year, but will start up soon, as I am determined to get them bigger. Problem is I walk a very lot.

Wayne
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SanDiego

simon-hecubus wrote:
SanDiego wrote:
You know, for me, I tend to agree with the Reg Park approach. I had more success with frequent calf training, coupled with periods where I would take a week or two off.

I am not certain of the cause, but I think more frequent training (for me) gave me a chance to get used to the hot searing pain caused by higher rep calf raises. If I only performed them once per week (or less) the pain seemed that much more unbearable.


I get a fine "sear" from doing 8-10 reps with a long stretch.

I'm not sure why the frequency would have anything to do with it.


The pain is so acute for me that I benefitted from a higher frequency, at least psychologically-- if I trained calves too infrequently, I found it much harder to cope with the pain. When training more frequently, I could manage the pain better, get more reps, push myself harder, etc.

The pain I get from calf raises is unlike any other exercise.

Lower reps never seemed to do much for me, unless preceeded by higher rep sets.

I have found, however, that as my calves got larger, I seemed to benefit a bit more from lowering the rep range.
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Acerimmer1

BIO-FORCE wrote:

I think Mike felt that focusing on the Big Toe side placed stimulus on the lateral (outside) head of the calf.

It was not a big topic of discusion and was talked about in one of those relaxed (laying around the pool in Palm Springs) conversations way back when.



If you think about it that would work the peroneals, which are right around there. And they pronate the ankle.

Whereas your example of the basketball team training for healthy ankles is the opposite to that.

Ace.
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HDLou

There is a profile article on Zane in this months Ironman magazine. He is now 65 and weighs a ripped 170lbs. Trains 1 day on 2 days off on a push/pull/legs split.
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JONKILCOYNE

Florida, USA

The tip Mike gave Zane was doing one legged Donkey calf raises on the Nautilus Multi-exercise machine.

There was any special method employed-it was just an re-attention on good form-it was that he had him get as far up on his toes as he possible could and then on the opposite end a good stretch with smooth controlled repetitions.
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mrhighintensity

Nevada, USA

I been doing a variation of Mike's workout with some changes in rep range...but mainly doing only 2-3 sets once every 7-10 days!!!

Standing calf raises 1x6-15 (fail at 6 then include some static holds plus a few negative reps till I reach 15 - ouch!)

Seated calf raises 1x10-15 (same here but not as low in reps)

Donkey calf raises 1x20-30 (high reps here but still to failure )

This workout has produced some insane growth in my calves - currently measure around 19.5 inches...need another inch to match my arms - lol

MR
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Coma

Illinois, USA

mrhighintensity wrote:

This workout has produced some insane growth in my calves - currently measure around 19.5 inches...need another inch to match my arms - lol

MR


Damn Markus, impressive. What are you weighing these days? Even at 260lbs. or so I don't have those measurements. Though I have to admit my upper legs are way overdeveloped compared to the rest of me so that's where the extra weight comes from.


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Acerimmer1

mrhighintensity wrote:
I been doing a variation of Mike's workout with some changes in rep range...but mainly doing only 2-3 sets once every 7-10 days!!!

Standing calf raises 1x6-15 (fail at 6 then include some static holds plus a few negative reps till I reach 15 - ouch!)

Seated calf raises 1x10-15 (same here but not as low in reps)

Donkey calf raises 1x20-30 (high reps here but still to failure )

This workout has produced some insane growth in my calves - currently measure around 19.5 inches...need another inch to match my arms - lol

MR


Thanks appreciate it!!!!

Wow you're packing some size on huh.

I have some questions for you if thats okay. It is probably gonna seem like alot but it isn't everyday I get to talk to somebody at your level of developement.

Do you use the static holds and negatives for all 3 sets of calves?

Can you tell me your routine overall?

You say you're doing a variation of Mentzers routine . How was the original different?

Are the static holds at different points in the ROM? Do you ever use Tom Platz technique on the seated calf (eg at the end of the set use your bodyweight to press down on the lever and stretch your calves even more for 30 seconds before you get up).

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