MB Madaera
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Chris Madaera
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Keelan Parham
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Bob Marchesello
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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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BDJ Proof of Zone's Effectiveness?
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HIT

Norway

I was surfing around the IART homepage and found a "new" pic of BDJ and was very impressed even if the pic is quite small!
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Crotalus

Zone Reps work ... no doubt about it. I've been training this way three years now and love the results.

There are a lot of great guys here who definitely know training but too bad some are so stuck in their ways ... as bad as HV trainers. They miss a lot of new things being that dogmatic about there being only one way to train intensely and get results. I was one for too long and so glad I opened up and decided to train a bit differently than I did for 20 years.
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Joshua Trentine

Ohio, USA

Brian's body has changed quite a bit in the last couple of years.
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Tom Traynor

Can anyone summarize WHY this method "works"?
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Mr. Strong

They are just stage reps, get over it.
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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

Mr. Strong wrote:
They are just stage reps, get over it.


With all due respect... while there are certainly similarities, Brian has certainly taken this to whole new levels, and, I think Brian would agree, done properly, there is no one way to do jreps properly... one of the whole principles of zone training, is for each inidividual trainee to apply it in a way that feels best for them, in terms of really working the targeted muscle, rather than just getting caught up in any specified number of reps, progression, etc. This is something I have personally struggled with as I have long tried to standardize things in order to be able to gauge progress properly, so this is quite the departure, but I do believe it has a lot of merit.

Dr. Darden, in his last book pointed out (I'm already putting words in Brian's mouth which he might correct me for, so now here goes with Dr. Darden) that in choosing the more important factor between proper form and intensity, he would choose proper form... and I think this aligns well with Brian's thinking... despite our efforts to go to failure in good form, it is virtually inevitable to prevent significant amount of "bracing" (bringing in muscles that are not part of what we intend to target) when we worry about simply increasing the amount of weight we bring to failure in a given number of reps.

We use to say, at the end of a good set, a muscle can't tell if it has had one or three sets, it only knows it has been worked hard.. I would go on to say, that the muscle doesn't know how much weight was on the bar, when working it through "sweet spots" in zones in whatever variation that may wind up taking for different individuals but you will feel that it has worked.

Many people have reported actually decreasing the amount of weight used, and putting greater focus on this with zone training, and I think that is very logical, albeit, not in a linear way as with traditional hit...

just my 2 cents...
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overfiftylifter

Your 2 cents should be coined in gold. There is too much dogma that any one system is the only way to train. Your views are refreshing.

Overfiftylifter-for more common sense.
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Waynes

Switzerland

In my opinion that looks an older photo, as Brian looks older in the other photos I have seen of him ???

And I dont think Brian has just build his body on Jreps, he has done many programs.

Wayne
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Crotalus

overfiftylifter wrote:
Your 2 cents should be coined in gold. There is too much dogma that any one system is the only way to train. Your views are refreshing.


I agree . I give him a lot of credit for responding in such an informative way to such comments like Strong's. I wouldn't have wasted the time ...

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Waynes

Switzerland

Hi Rick,

s153015 wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
They are just stage reps, get over it.

With all due respect... while there are certainly similarities, Brian has certainly taken this to whole new levels, and, I think Brian would agree, done properly, there is no one way to do jreps properly...

one of the whole principles of zone training, is for each inidividual trainee to apply it in a way that feels best for them, in terms of really working the targeted muscle, rather than just getting caught up in any specified number of reps, progression, etc.

This is something I have personally struggled with as I have long tried to standardize things in order to be able to gauge progress properly, so this is quite the departure, but I do believe it has a lot of merit.

Dr. Darden, in his last book pointed out (I'm already putting words in Brian's mouth which he might correct me for, so now here goes with Dr. Darden) that in choosing the more important factor between proper form and intensity, he would choose proper form...

and I think this aligns well with Brian's thinking... despite our efforts to go to failure in good form,


If your saying you put form over intensity, why ??? Any reson why you think this is better ???


s153015 wrote:
it is virtually inevitable to prevent significant amount of "bracing" (bringing in muscles that are not part of what we intend to target) when we worry about simply increasing the amount of weight we bring to failure in a given number of reps.


But we need to bring in muscles that are not part of what we intend to target, for better development.

As we all know its impossible to isolate a muscle, but some exersices do a better job at this than other exersices. Lets take the seated DB curl as an example, target muscle the biceps, however you can not fail to use the muscles of the hand, wrist, forearm and shoulders to a huge degree.

If you tried and could relax these muscles you would not use so much weight, this would then less beneficial to the biceps than if you tensed them and used them as much as possible.

Thus then you would be able to use more weight, which would be more beneficial to the biceps, just like the apparatus you use when curling, that is bracing your arm/biceps like your hand, wrist, forearm and shoulders do, thus these all work far better this way, as you can then use more weight.

You should NOT relax the stabilises job is, its to provide a solid platform where/when the main muscle mover can apply more power/strength/effort.

When the stabilizers are relaxed/lowered, the CNS also lowers the main muscle movers capacity, in this case the biceps.

So relaxing the stabilizers lowers both the quantity of weight you will use, and will in turn lower the tensioning capacity of the main muscle mover.

So the more form you try to use the less efficient of a muscle hypertrophy and strength building the exercise will become.

Relaxing stabilizers, in this case the hand, wrist, forearm and shoulders is a bad idea if you actually want to stimulate a given muscle as much as possible.

Try leg pressing and take the butt muscles out ??? Go try leg pressing and try relaxing any muscles other then the quads; you will not leg press half so much.

Its the same with all exersices, they just need the other muscles to help them to bring out their full capacity, thats their full effort/power/strength, they all help each other.

The stabilizers are the helpers that allow us to use much more weight, to try to increase muscle tension from adding extra weight by reducing their involvement will limit the efforts and intensities.

So if you looking for strength and size, you need to involve the stabilizers, its not that you need too, you will just automatically use them,

Relaxing the stabilizers dose not put as great a load on the main muscle mover it will only reduce it. The stabilizers allow us to use more weight/load, when not relaxed.

Thats why the body evolved to work as a whole, or as John would say, too use the full kinetic chain.

s153015 wrote:
We use to say, at the end of a good set, a muscle can't tell if it has had one or three sets,


I think the muscles knows far to well if its had one or three sets

s153015 wrote:
it only knows it has been worked hard..


If this muscle had not been worked before, it would know it was worked harder by the three sets, for many reasons, and the person would tell immediately by the burn and pump, and in the morning by being sorer on the arm that had three sets.

s153015 wrote:
I would go on to say, that the muscle doesn't know how much weight was on the bar, when working it through "sweet spots" in zones in whatever variation that may wind up taking for different individuals but you will feel that it has worked.


If there is more weight on the bar you are your muscle will know it straight away.

s153015 wrote:
Many people have reported actually decreasing the amount of weight used, and putting greater focus on this with zone training, and I think that is very logical, albeit, not in a linear way as with traditional hit...

just my 2 cents...


You first have to experiment on what weight you use for all new programs, but the weight should always go up not down, I have never heard of people adding muscle by reducing the weight ???

My take on Jreps,

It MUST have a lot to do with MMMTs (John Caslers Momentary Muscular Muscle Tensions) that make the Stage Reps, Jreps productive, as the MMMTs the highest tensions the muscles will have from the transition negative to the positive are very high,

as just take if you just do 10 mini reps in each stage thats 30 MMMTs and you can go up to 20 mini reps in each stage, thats a staggering 60 MMMTs.

And these MMMTs are VERY close together, also adding to the fact you work in the hardest range first, it is no wonder they fatigue you quite fast and far faster compeered to norm all 2/4 reps.

If you do the mini reps faster you will create far far far HIGHER MMMTs, and these MMMTs are one of the best principles for size and strength.

Wayne
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s153015

New Brunswick, CAN

To Wayne...

I was trying to explain what I think the thinking is behind zone training, and how it is not "simply stage reps"... as for all your other points, I respect your opinion, but as far as countering them, not sure where to start...

assuming I've quoted Dr. Darden accurately, perhaps he could explain why he sees form as more important than intensity.

I don't think he is saying intensity is not very important, just that if he had to choose.

Best,

Rick
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Landau

Florida, USA

"I think the muscles knows far to well if its had one or three sets - If this muscle had not been worked before, it would know it was worked harder by the three sets, for many reasons,If there is more weight on the bar you are your muscle will know it straight away."


What? Muscles are stupid pieces of meat, they have no cognitive feelings! What in the world are you talking about? Do you have set counters in your muscles like a parking meter?






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N@tural1

Waynes wrote:
I think the muscles knows far to well if its had one or three sets


Muscles DO NOT know how many sets they have been trained with, they know NOTHING!

Only us in our minds know how many actual sets we've trained with, muscle will only be damaged/fatigued, it knows NOTHING.
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Mr. Strong

Paint it whatever colour you want, they are still just stage reps.
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Waynes

Switzerland

Landau wrote:
"I think the muscles knows far to well if its had one or three sets - If this muscle had not been worked before, it would know it was worked harder by the three sets, for many reasons,If there is more weight on the bar you are your muscle will know it straight away."


What? Muscles are stupid pieces of meat, they have no cognitive feelings! What in the world are you talking about? Do you have set counters in your muscles like a parking meter?



If you test your 1RM or 10RM, and then do one set to failure on one arm and three sets to failure on the other arm, the next day you might get to one rep of these RMs, or even get them, however on the arm that did the three sets you would be lucky to get half the reps,

As I said, it the muscle would know it was worked harder by the three sets, for many reasons, If there is more weight on the bar you and your muscle will know it straight away, the muscles do not know nothing, as they know when they have been worked hard or harder.

Natural2 wrote:
Waynes wrote:
I think the muscles knows far to well if its had one or three sets

Muscles DO NOT know how many sets they have been trained with, they know NOTHING!

Only us in our minds know how many actual sets we've trained with, muscle will only be damaged/fatigued, it knows NOTHING.



Wayne
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Landau

Florida, USA

Are your muscles little people that talk to you about RFD also?
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

I recently had the "pleasure" of reading his analysis of the Moment Arm Exercise manual.
The analysis, and I use the term loosely, is somewhere between intellectually dishonest, creatively bankrupt, and copyright infringement.
If I actually thought it had an effect on me I'd take action.

In the meantime, is it really necessary for IART guys to hijack threads here again?
Don't you have your own sites and forums to impress yourselves on?
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

Bill De Simone wrote:
I recently had the "pleasure" of reading his analysis of the Moment Arm Exercise manual.
The analysis, and I use the term loosely, is somewhere between intellectually dishonest, creatively bankrupt, and copyright infringement.
If I actually thought it had an effect on me I'd take action.

In the meantime, is it really necessary for IART guys to hijack threads here again?
Don't you have your own sites and forums to impress yourselves on?


Could you please post a link to this article, or tell me what book it is in. I need to read moment arm exercise aswell. I find Brians work to be very well done so I will have to try to see your side of the story.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Brian a couple of times now and you can attribute his physique to whatever you want but it is impressive.

If he says he has made vast improvements using zone training I would take his word for it.

Hello Mr. Strong, curious have you read any of the J-rep books? I still need to read the third one.

Michael
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gmlongo

Connecticut, USA

Mr. Strong wrote:
Paint it whatever colour you want, they are still just stage reps.


Says the guy who has no idea what zone training is...
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Mr. Strong

gmlongo wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
Paint it whatever colour you want, they are still just stage reps.

Says the guy who has no idea what zone training is...



Zone training, lol. Call it what you want. Do you look like this guy?
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Mr. Strong

Michael Petrella wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
I recently had the "pleasure" of reading his analysis of the Moment Arm Exercise manual.
The analysis, and I use the term loosely, is somewhere between intellectually dishonest, creatively bankrupt, and copyright infringement.
If I actually thought it had an effect on me I'd take action.

In the meantime, is it really necessary for IART guys to hijack threads here again?
Don't you have your own sites and forums to impress yourselves on?

Could you please post a link to this article, or tell me what book it is in. I need to read moment arm exercise aswell. I find Brians work to be very well done so I will have to try to see your side of the story.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Brian a couple of times now and you can attribute his physique to whatever you want but it is impressive.

If he says he has made vast improvements using zone training I would take his word for it.

Hello Mr. Strong, curious have you read any of the J-rep books? I still need to read the third one.

Michael



I wouldn't waste my time and money on one of his books.
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Waynes

Switzerland


s153015 wrote:
To Wayne...

I was trying to explain what I think the thinking is behind zone training, and how it is not "simply stage reps"... as for all your other points, I respect your opinion, but as far as countering them, not sure where to start...

assuming I've quoted Dr. Darden accurately, perhaps he could explain why he sees form as more important than intensity.

I don't think he is saying intensity is not very important, just that if he had to choose.

Best,

Rick


K fine Rick.

Dont think Ellington will get involved, however as its his forum I thought he would be in the think of all the debates, but I know the reason for that.

Now best say how much of an improvement you have made in your tread, as I keep forgetting.

Wayne
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cmg

Michael Petrella wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
I recently had the "pleasure" of reading his analysis of the Moment Arm Exercise manual.
The analysis, and I use the term loosely, is somewhere between intellectually dishonest, creatively bankrupt, and copyright infringement.
If I actually thought it had an effect on me I'd take action.

In the meantime, is it really necessary for IART guys to hijack threads here again?
Don't you have your own sites and forums to impress yourselves on?

Could you please post a link to this article, or tell me what book it is in. I need to read moment arm exercise aswell. I find Brians work to be very well done so I will have to try to see your side of the story.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Brian a couple of times now and you can attribute his physique to whatever you want but it is impressive.

If he says he has made vast improvements using zone training I would take his word for it.

Hello Mr. Strong, curious have you read any of the J-rep books? I still need to read the third one.

Michael


Hi Michael -

I believe you stated that you've used J-Reps. Do you still employ that method? If so how long have you used it? Did you see size/strength gains? How did you gage your progress? How much weight did you gain if any?

Thank you,

Ron

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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Michael Petrella wrote:

Could you please post a link to this article, or tell me what book it is in. I need to read moment arm exercise aswell. I find Brians work to be very well done so I will have to try to see your side of the story.

Michael,
You're on your own as far as BJ's material, since he certainly doesn't need my help in promoting his material.

Moment Arm Exercise can be ordered at stores.ebay.com/moment-arm-exercise.

Nice of you to acknowledge more than one side of an issue. A rarity online.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Waynes wrote:
In my opinion that looks an older photo, as Brian looks older in the other photos I have seen of him ???


Oh geezushfuckingchrist Wayne!!!!!!
Give that shit a break will you?!

He looks younger cause he's thinner. Nothing will make you look older than excess skin around the face.

Anyone who wasn't obnoxious would know that.


And I dont think Brian has just build his body on Jreps, he has done many programs.

Wayne


Many programs, but never the Throw-Weights-Around-Like-an-Idiot Program.
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