MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle


Bob Marchesello
Lost 23.55 lbs fat
Built 8.55 lbs muscle


Jeff Turner
Lost 25.5 lbs fat


Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
Built 3 lbs muscle


Ted Tucker
Lost 41 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle

 
 

Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


ARCHIVES >>

"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

Mission Statement

H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy

Privacy Policy

Credits

LOG IN FORUM MAIN REGISTER SEARCH
Is Running Really all that Bad?
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next | Last
Author
Rating
Options

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Virtually every runner I know has ZERO knee or hip issues. HIT folks of course tend to be very anti-running, but if it's really so horrible for you, I have to wonder where all the "wore out" joints are on runners? I sure don't see them.
Open User Options Menu

Acerimmer1

coachjeff wrote:
Virtually every runner I know has ZERO knee or hip issues. HIT folks of course tend to be very anti-running, but if it's really so horrible for you, I have to wonder where all the "wore out" joints are on runners? I sure don't see them.


I guess this is a much larger forum than this one but you can see they still have alot of issues. Knees is a big one and not suprisingly considering how prevelant ITBS seems to be.

http://www.runnersworld.com/...rum%3A678106477
Open User Options Menu

coomo

expend all that effort and still look like shit.Whats the point?
Open User Options Menu

davise

I run 1 1/2 to 2 miles twice a week. I do HIT twice a week alternating an A and B routine every other week. Monday is an all out HIT workout and a cruising easy run. Friday is the same workout done NTF and a run done as hard as I can go. Knee issues = none. Hip issuea = none. Back issues = none. Feet issues = none. I'm 43 and have been running since I was 13 in one fashion or another. Even when I was heavily into amateur powerlifting I still ran windsprints, because I enjoy a game of racquetball, pickup basketball and flag football.

For three years I did half marathons, 10ks, and 5ks extensively after a divorce for therapy and to blow off stress. Long distance running done to extremes can cause issues. Extreme long distance runners are people who are built to do that (genetics anyone?) A couple of miles a couple of times a week shouldn't be an issue. Run or don't run as you see fit. As someone who plays a lot of pickup sports running is of benefit to me.

If all you do is HIT that is fine for health purposes, building muscle and weight control along with diet. For me, I like to play recreational sports, hike, swim, practice combative training etc. Running fits into what I like to do.
Open User Options Menu

frostyF

Arkansas, USA

Seek out some older (former) runners in their mid-50s to early-70s and you'll find plenty of limpers.
Leon
Open User Options Menu

physcult

Twisting and turning seems to make it worse. Look at soccer players and dancers for joint issues.

Bodybuilding seems problematic for joints when AAS are used.

Im not sure what happens to gymnasts, does anyone else know?
Open User Options Menu

Landau

Florida, USA

coachjeff wrote:
Virtually every runner I know has ZERO knee or hip issues. HIT folks of course tend to be very anti-running, but if it's really so horrible for you, I have to wonder where all the "wore out" joints are on runners? I sure don't see them.


The Physical Director at the YMCA back in the Early 80s had 3 Knee Surgeries as a result of his Running - I have seen others, but don't recall the specifics at the moment. Running in my opinion is an afflictive obsession to many. You don't have to be in HIT Circles to understand running in the most part is useless, unless done specifically for its exact use in a said particular SPORT or when you have a Multitude of Troups. "What are you running from?"
Open User Options Menu

southbeach

Landau wrote:
coachjeff wrote:
Virtually every runner I know has ZERO knee or hip issues. HIT folks of course tend to be very anti-running, but if it's really so horrible for you, I have to wonder where all the "wore out" joints are on runners? I sure don't see them.

The Physical Director at the YMCA back in the Early 80s had 3 Knee Surgeries as a result of his Running - I have seen others, but don't recall the specifics at the moment. Running in my opinion is an afflictive obsession to many. You don't have to be in HIT Circles to understand running in the most part is useless, unless done specifically for its exact use in a said particular SPORT or when you have a Multitude of Troups. "What are you running from?"


Did you see the 3 or 4 studies I posted a while back showing improved central arterial compliance in runners but not weightlifters?
Open User Options Menu

alex////doom

Ontario, CAN

coachjeff wrote:
Virtually every runner I know has ZERO knee or hip issues. HIT folks of course tend to be very anti-running, but if it's really so horrible for you, I have to wonder where all the "wore out" joints are on runners? I sure don't see them.


My high school was running obsessed...but I saw the direct results of their efforts first hand. Many teachers I had were marathon runners or triathlon runners, and they all looked wore out...perpetually tired. I cannot recall one individual who was a runner who didn't tell me of some injury or nagging pain in their back or knees. And their cardiovascular conditioning? Well I clearly recall a successful marathoner going to CARDIOVASCULAR failure on a set of high intensity leg presses...stopping and telling me that he just couldn't catch his breathe. Is running dangerous? Sure as hell is. Worth it? Well that depends on your personal goals. If you require that conditioning for long distance races, and that goal is important to you, all the power to ya. If you are trying improve your heath or "energy levels", as some have confided in me that that is their purpose in running...which is the stupidest thing I have heard...or pretty damn close to it. And although I have always been against running, not for scientific reasons...I just always despised it and thought it worthless...running serves no productive physiological purpose...psychological,maybe...but only runs the risk of damaging your joints while wasting far too much of your damn time!

Alex
Open User Options Menu

Landau

Florida, USA

It's well established that Physical Activity (Functional Capacity) and the Health of the Heart/Vascular System are unrelated. The So Called Physiological Changes that occur, Do Not make the Heart/Vascular System any Healthier - but you can pull up the "studies" for those desperate to "show" you otherwise. It leaves much to be desired, if you depend on what goes on behind closed doors.

Because whether you do or can, does NOT make you any Healthier than the next guy. They are Specious Studies at Best, as they always are. But back to the task at hand with these trail blazers, if you believe they are HIP/KNEE Free of Injury, overwhelming evidence suggests otherwise. I suspect, just as I have seen on the Cross Fit Forum Site, there is a separate area for discussing scary injuries, I would believe the same similarities would exist on the Running Sites.
Open User Options Menu

SanSooMan

Take a look at the COMMON INJURIES area on Runner's World.com Scary.
Open User Options Menu

DSears

There is such a thing as good running form. People who naturally run with decent form can escape injury. I've always had decent form and have never been injured but I gave up running any significant distance a long time ago.

I still run a bit for the fun of it but it's mostly short intervals. If you are going to run I'd recommend you check out some of the sites that promote good form like Posetech.com or Chi running.

As far as running for fitness I don't think it's necessary as long as you move pretty quickly between exercises.

I look at running like I do any recreational activity. If you enjoy it and can do it safely fine but don't think it will take the place of proper exercise.

David
Open User Options Menu

spud

coachjeff wrote:
Virtually every runner I know has ZERO knee or hip issues.


Jeff,

How many runners do you know?

If you know thousands of dedicated runners, none of whom have hip or knee injuries, then maybe you're onto something.

If you know about 5 or 10 dedicated runners, then that's nowhere near a large enough sample of the running population to make any kind of judgment about injuries etc.
Open User Options Menu

davise

I agree with the good running form. You guys do realize the guys on runners world are mostly long distance runners...ie overtraining to the extreme. It would be like saying HIT is dangerous because look at all the injuries in Olympic Lifting, Powerlifting and 6 day a week 2 hours a day typical bodybuilding. My father at 67 still runs 3 miles 3 days a week.

He also does some dumbbell work and hits a heavybag several times a week as well. He's had the occasional ding, but it can't be directly attributed to jogging. When he was teaching Judo is when he received most of his injuries. Does anyone here do anything athletic other than their HIT training? Most injuries I've received have been through combatives training and doing 1RM when I was powerlifting.

I have never received an injury from moderate running...ie a couple of miles a couple of days a week. Don't lump everyone who runs into the same category just as we don't want us (HITTers) lumped into the same category as everyone who lifts weights.
Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

coomo wrote:
expend all that effort and still look like shit.Whats the point?


Here is a photo of Dean Karnazes who not only runs, but runs ultra-marathons of 100 miles or more. He has over 300 miles without sleep, which took him about 3 days. He has also run 50 marathons in 50 consecutive days, in all 50 US states.

I highly recommend his book ultramarathon man.

His physique is probably not what most BB aspire to of course, but he is relatively muscular looking. Much more so than most marathon runners, who do often look like concentration camp victims.

The fact that he racks up way more miles than "mere" marathon runners, yet is muscular looking challenges the idea that running automatically leads to overly skinny physique, if one is smart about diet.

Many US military personal run 3 to 5 miles per day, yet don't seem to waste away.

I agree that compulsive running is a waste of precious time, and probably not real good on the ole joints. At least for most.

But I see no harm in running 3 miles or so, several times per week. It's not really my cup-of-tea, but to each their own.
Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Forgot to post the darn photo of Dean. Here it is.
Open User Options Menu

southbeach

Look at the calves on Dean!
Open User Options Menu

southbeach

Landau wrote:
It's well established that Physical Activity (Functional Capacity) and the Health of the Heart/Vascular System are unrelated. The So Called Physiological Changes that occur, Do Not make the Heart/Vascular System any Healthier - but you can pull up the "studies" for those desperate to "show" you otherwise. It leaves much to be desired, if you depend on what goes on behind closed doors.

Because whether you do or can, does NOT make you any Healthier than the next guy. They are Specious Studies at Best, as they always are. But back to the task at hand with these trail blazers, if you believe they are HIP/KNEE Free of Injury, overwhelming evidence suggests otherwise. I suspect, just as I have seen on the Cross Fit Forum Site, there is a separate area for discussing scary injuries, I would believe the same similarities would exist on the Running Sites.


Not sure where or who you are getting your facts but you seem to be laboring under a few misconceptions from the old school ;)

Here's a few updated info to consider:

#1) Eur J Cardiovasc Prev Rehabil. 2006 Oct;13(5):805-11.

Habitual aerobic exercise is associated with smaller femoral artery intima-media thickness with age in healthy men and women.
Moreau KL, Silver AE, Dinenno FA, Seals DR.

Department of Integrative Physiology, University of Colorado at Boulder, Boulder, Colorado, USA. kerrie.moreau@uchsc.edu

BACKGROUND: Femoral artery intima-media thickness (IMT), an independent predictor of atherosclerotic disease risk, increases with age in sedentary adults. It is not known whether regular aerobic exercise modulates femoral IMT with ageing. METHODS AND RESULTS: Study 1: Femoral IMT was measured in 173 sedentary, moderately active, and endurance-trained young (20-39 years), middle-aged (40-59 years) and older (60-79 years) men. IMT increased with age in all activity groups (P<0.001). However, IMT was 20-27% smaller in age-matched, endurance-trained compared with sedentary men (P<0.001), and the age-associated increase in IMT was 33% smaller in endurance-trained compared with sedentary men (+0.32 versus +0.45 mm). There was a trend for the IMT to be smaller in moderately active compared with sedentary older men, and the age-associated increase in IMT was 37% smaller in moderately active than sedentary men (+0.28 mm). Study 2: Among 74 premenopausal and postmenopausal sedentary or endurance-trained women, IMT was higher (P<0.001) in postmenopausal compared with premenopausal women regardless of activity status. However, IMT was 15% smaller in endurance-trained compared with sedentary postmenopausal women (P<0.001), and the premenopausal to postmenopausal difference in IMT was approximately 45% smaller in endurance-trained compared with sedentary women (+0.13 versus +0.23 mm). CONCLUSIONS: Femoral IMT increases with age even in habitually exercising adults. However, the age-associated increase and absolute level of IMT are smaller in middle-aged and older adults who perform regular aerobic-endurance exercise, and may contribute to their lower incidence of atherosclerotic disease.

#2) J Appl Physiol. 2008 Oct;105(4):1323-32. Epub 2008 Jun 26.

Habitual exercise and arterial aging.
Seals DR, Desouza CA, Donato AJ, Tanaka H.

Department of Integrative Physiology, University of Colorado, 354 UCB, Boulder, CO 80309, USA. seals@colorado.edu

Aging affects the function and structure of arteries and increases the risk of cardiovascular diseases (CVD). In healthy sedentary adults, aging is associated with increased stiffness (reduced compliance) of large elastic arteries; impaired vascular endothelial function, including reductions in endothelium-dependent dilation (EDD), release of tissue-type plasminogen activator (fibrinolytic capacity) and endothelial progenitor cell number and function; increased intima-media wall thickness (IMT); and peripheral vasoconstriction (decreased basal leg blood flow). Habitual physical activity/increased aerobic exercise capacity is associated with reduced risk of CVD. Compared with their sedentary peers, adults who regularly perform aerobic exercise demonstrate smaller or no age-associated increases in large elastic artery stiffness, reductions in vascular endothelial function, and increases in femoral artery IMT. A short-term, moderate-intensity aerobic exercise intervention (brisk daily walking for 12 wk) improves carotid artery compliance and can restore vascular endothelial function in previously sedentary middle-aged and older adults. Reduced oxidative stress may be an important mechanism contributing to these effects. Habitual resistance exercise increases (high-intensity) or does not affect (moderate-intensity) large elastic artery stiffness, and prevents/restores the age-associated reduction in basal leg blood flow independent of changes in leg fat-free mass. Habitual exercise favorably modulates several expressions of arterial aging, thus preserving vascular function and possibly reducing the risk of CVD.

As these studies suggest there is a health benefit to habitual aerobic exercise (running). A benefit that may not be seen with resistance training (see last study).
Open User Options Menu

Landau

Florida, USA

Old School? Realistic is More Like it. As I told Someone Before, go and Research Research Studies and the Reliability of Such. Anyone who posts Research on "Aerobic Activity" is outdated and simply unaware - It has Recently been exposed as BS. Gross Antatomical Heart Rate Elevation is JUST PLAIN STUPID - REGARDLESS OF THE VAGUE "RESEARCH" - POINTLESS. When I see people on Walking/Running Programs, I WANNA PUKE and I WANNA RUN THEM OVER WITH MY CAR.
Open User Options Menu

N@tural1

David.

Are you saying that running/jogging is of no benefit to the heart and lungs at all?
Open User Options Menu

davise

Wow...you really need psychological help. Even if you are somewhat of a HIT icon to some people you have some screws loose. Does everyone have to do like you do? Is there no room for any variation in your world view?
Open User Options Menu

Landau

Florida, USA

Natty wrote:
David.

Are you saying that running/jogging is of no benefit to the heart and lungs at all?


NONE
Open User Options Menu

southbeach

Landau wrote:
Old School? Realistic is More Like it. As I told Someone Before, go and Research Research Studies and the Reliability of Such. Anyone who posts Research on "Aerobic Activity" is outdated and simply unaware - It has Recently been exposed as BS. Gross Antatomical Heart Rate Elevation is JUST PLAIN STUPID - REGARDLESS OF THE VAGUE "RESEARCH" - POINTLESS. When I see people on Walking/Running Programs, I WANNA PUKE and I WANNA RUN THEM OVER WITH MY CAR.


go and 'research research studies"?

LOL

we don't need to we got YOU for the truth!

LOL
Open User Options Menu

coomo

coachjeff wrote:
Forgot to post the darn photo of Dean. Here it is.

13 inch arms,no traps.anyone with low bf can look like this.these two are lean, with 13inch arms, im pretty sure they dont do much "cardio" either
Open User Options Menu

Yes

southbeach wrote:
Look at the calves on Dean!

Even though I hate running I have to say that it seems good at building calves. Strength training does very little in this regard as the calves respond poorly to it(no increase in protein synthesis in calves from strength training).

I've got the best gains on my calves from taking long walks, which I like to do in the summer.
Open User Options Menu
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next | Last
Administrators Online: Mod Phoenix
H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy