"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."
This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.
To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.
I'm enjoying this thread a great deal.And Joe my friend, you know, the only real problem we have with Transformetrics is that we make too much sense with the carefully integrated multi-faceted approach that we take when it comes to strength training, body sculpting, injury prevention, nutrition and maximized life long Virility. It's all just too logical. I mean after all, how does the fact that God instills a basic self protective survival instinct in wild animals that prevents them from ever doing anything that would compromise their spine, or joints, tendons and ligaments relate to anything other than lifelong strength, youthfulness, and maximum virility. I mean come on Joe, we all know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you could not possibly build the freakish dimensions with our methods that geniuses like Mike Mentzer were famous for creating with their chemical cocktails. Truth is, you just cannot become a freak with our methods.Nor can you bust yourself up so that someday you can sit around the bar telling people how much you used to bench and squat before you became too injured to train.
And Greg Newton, what you stated had me laughing out loud. The Pseudo-Intellectual BS that guys like Mike Mentzer and his cronies were always babbling about was a joke to entrap the gullible who assumed that just because he was massively huge, disfigured, and busted up as result of his preoccupation with steroids, pharmaceuticals, and heavy iron, and could quote Fredrich Nietzsche at the drop of a hat must have meant that he knew what he was talking about. In truth the only thing that Mentzer and his cronies knew how to do was to build themselves up with massive doses of chemicals and heavy iron. And then to cover up for his lack fundamental knowledge the guy would quote Nietzsche to try and impress people into thinking that he was an intellectual. Well, as it turns out Mentzer found out one thing that Nietzsche was actually right about. Nietzsche said,"In heaven all the interesting people are missing." And like Nietzsche I'm sure Mentzer is spending eternity with exactly his own kind of people that I'm sure he finds very interesting.
Dynamic Tension Lives! All he needs is a cartoon of a guy getting sand kicked in his face.
I like the animation of the woman doing the "Tiger Stretch Push Up." The ancient Greeks and Romans called that position "The Lioness." I'm not sure how it's supposed to work with her wearing all those workout clothes, though.
I'm enjoying this thread a great deal.And Joe my friend, you know, the only real problem we have with Transformetrics is that we make too much sense with the carefully integrated multi-faceted approach that we take when it comes to strength training, body sculpting, injury prevention, nutrition and maximized life long Virility. It's all just too logical. I mean after all, how does the fact that God instills a basic self protective survival instinct in wild animals that prevents them from ever doing anything that would compromise their spine, or joints, tendons and ligaments relate to anything other than lifelong strength, youthfulness, and maximum virility. I mean come on Joe, we all know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you could not possibly build the freakish dimensions with our methods that geniuses like Mike Mentzer were famous for creating with their chemical cocktails. Truth is, you just cannot become a freak with our methods.Nor can you bust yourself up so that someday you can sit around the bar telling people how much you used to bench and squat before you became too injured to train.
And Greg Newton, what you stated had me laughing out loud. The Pseudo-Intellectual BS that guys like Mike Mentzer and his cronies were always babbling about was a joke to entrap the gullible who assumed that just because he was massively huge, disfigured, and busted up as result of his preoccupation with steroids, pharmaceuticals, and heavy iron, and could quote Fredrich Nietzsche at the drop of a hat must have meant that he knew what he was talking about. In truth the only thing that Mentzer and his cronies knew how to do was to build themselves up with massive doses of chemicals and heavy iron. And then to cover up for his lack fundamental knowledge the guy would quote Nietzsche to try and impress people into thinking that he was an intellectual. Well, as it turns out Mentzer found out one thing that Nietzsche was actually right about. Nietzsche said,"In heaven all the interesting people are missing." And like Nietzsche I'm sure Mentzer is spending eternity with exactly his own kind of people that I'm sure he finds very interesting.
---John Peterson
==Scott==
Whether Mike Mentzer was right or wrong on all the issues about building muscle has nothing to do with the fact that he was a very intelligent guy. I've read just about everything published years ago about muscle building and Mentzer is right up there with Jones and Darden in his thinking process. He was a very smart guy and dumb at the same time. His biggest problem was an ego that led to his self destruction.
==Scott==
Whether Mike Mentzer was right or wrong on all the issues about building muscle has nothing to do with the fact that he was a very intelligent guy. I've read just about everything published years ago about muscle building and Mentzer is right up there with Jones and Darden in his thinking process. He was a very smart guy and dumb at the same time.
Aren't we all?:)
His biggest problem was an ego that led to his self destruction.
Not really, Mentzer's biggest problem was terrible mental illness and he certainly didn't create it himself!
Landau wrote:
Joe Mullen Told Me Opposite and Hardly NO ONE Knows More About Mike than Joe.
Cannot you see people do this just for the money ???
Here is someone who actually knew and trained with them.
John, yep I know, I am a pain in the butt, but just have a good memory, thus will take this out if you say, but you did write this in the ST group 2005.
John Casler writes:
I have personally trained with both Mentzers, knew Casey's training partner, and trained a few times at Golds while Dorian was training, and can assure most that their training for the most part was not even close to "single sets" to failure.
High Intensity? You bet. Each Body part once a week? I think so, but single sets to failure? No way. (Well after Mike got older and overweight, he trained that way)
Landau wrote:
Joe Mullen Told Me Opposite and Hardly NO ONE Knows More About Mike than Joe.
Cannot you see people do this just for the money ???
Here is someone who actually knew and trained with them.
John, yep I know, I am a pain in the butt, but just have a good memory, thus will take this out if you say, but you did write this in the ST group 2005.
John Casler writes:
I have personally trained with both Mentzers, knew Casey's training partner, and trained a few times at Golds while Dorian was training, and can assure most that their training for the most part was not even close to "single sets" to failure.
High Intensity? You bet. Each Body part once a week? I think so, but single sets to failure? No way. (Well after Mike got older and overweight, he trained that way)
Wayne
Wayne you are not only a PIA, but an idiot.
What I wrote a bout a "few" workouts DOES NOT in any way suggest what you claim.
NEVER use me, or anything I have written to support your BS again.
Mikes not in hell.Hell doesnt exist.What does exist though is a legacy,of an extraordinary character.I for one feel the world to be a better place,having had Mike Mentzer in it.So fuck em. Let the haters and sceptics post their rubbish, cos ill tell you one thing, they wouldnt have been able to go head to head with him, when he was alive.
Well I read through this site, and it appears to me that these folks are against using "iron" in their workouts. So they are not only against Darden and Mentzer, but also against Weider, Coleman, etc.!
For instance, take a look at this "intense" leg workout to develop strong and "shapely" legs posted on this site:
"Start by placing the ball between your legs just above your knees. Squeeze the ball with your legs and hold it for 3 seconds. Then relax, and repeat these 3-second Isometric Pulses for a total of 12 repetitions.
Next, move the ball down so that it is directly between your knees. Again, squeeze and hold it for 3 seconds. Then relax, followed by 11 more reps for a total of 12 consecutive Isometric Pulses.
Next, move the ball down so that it rests between your upper calves and knees, performing the same 12 Isometric Pulse reps in this position.
Finally, hold the ball between your ankles and calves and once again do 3-second Isometric Pulses for 12 consecutive repetitions."
This could be found in the "Articles" section of the site.
He just needs to do few things:
- not to hold grudges against people that oppose his views and opinions;
- curb the desire to payback or get even just for the sake of it;
- recognize the fact that repeating his views/opinions over and over again is not going to make people accept or embrace 'em.
Landau wrote:
Joe Mullen Told Me Opposite and Hardly NO ONE Knows More About Mike than Joe.
Cannot you see people do this just for the money ???
Here is someone who actually knew and trained with them.
John, yep I know, I am a pain in the butt, but just have a good memory, thus will take this out if you say, but you did write this in the ST group 2005.
John Casler writes:
I have personally trained with both Mentzers, knew Casey's training partner, and trained a few times at Golds while Dorian was training, and can assure most that their training for the most part was not even close to "single sets" to failure.
High Intensity? You bet. Each Body part once a week? I think so, but single sets to failure? No way. (Well after Mike got older and overweight, he trained that way)
Wayne
Wayne you are not only a PIA, but an idiot.
I and you know that I am not any of the above, and I very well know you are not, however if you think you need to lower yourself to that kind of rudeness and focus a endless barrage of personal attacks, that is your progetive, but you will not catch me lowering myself, I have too much self control, unlike you.
I also thought it was quite amusing when I showed you what Roger Enoka said, but you did not attempt to say you were wrong, just tried to mock me, very badly I would and did say, so badly as you did/could not follow up my reply, meet your upper match in debates to say the least, there is no need of these petty insults, you do not need to lower yourself to lower standards.
BIO-FORCE wrote:
What I wrote a bout a "few" workouts DOES NOT in any way suggest what you claim.
NEVER use me, or anything I have written to support your BS again.
It does suggest something, and with your other posts on the Mentzers. But as you say does not at all fully support what I say.
There is not just that post on the Mentzers, you wrote many times on them {the people of this forum, Ellington. And also a few of your first PMs to me on what you think of this forum and HIT, but I would never post those} and every time you said the way they train was nowhere near HIT. And if you read between the lines you and the rest can see that in the above what you wrote, you are saying they never did anything near Hit.
Then there is the pun at the end; Well after Mike got older and overweight, he trained that way.
I said not that they never did HIT, but if they had it would have only been for a few weeks.
What BS ???
What gets me is I honestly cannot understand why you are so against me ??? Thats the truth, I know you said the other day that you do not like me bragging you up, so I have stopped, and now I just use a little of what you write, and you call me names.
Ok sorry again John.
antz wrote:
BIO-FORCE wrote:
Wayne you are not only a PIA, but an idiot.
No Wayne is a good person.
He just needs to do few things:
- not to hold grudges against people that oppose his views and opinions;
- curb the desire to payback or get even just for the sake of it;
- recognize the fact that repeating his views/opinions over and over again is not going to make people accept or embrace 'em.
Thx antz, I honestly am, and am just here to learn and try to help.
I do not really hold a grudge, as I was once like them, I just like to try and make them understand, but some are some dogmatic, even when they know they are wrong, I bet they would say they are right, its like on the tackle thread, I asked a simple question, squat or leg press, and gave my view, but there were silly insults when they seen that they were wrong, yes I know its hard to say you are wrong, but I have done it.
Not trying to pay people back, who ???
Yep I know you are right, I do repeat things a little, but when people do not understand its hard not to.
==Scott==
Whether Mike Mentzer was right or wrong on all the issues about building muscle has nothing to do with the fact that he was a very intelligent guy. I've read just about everything published years ago about muscle building and Mentzer is right up there with Jones and Darden in his thinking process. He was a very smart guy and dumb at the same time.
Aren't we all?:)
His biggest problem was an ego that led to his self destruction.
Not really, Mentzer's biggest problem was terrible mental illness and he certainly didn't create it himself!
==Scott==
I courious as to what you feel his mental illness was if it was not his ego? To me he was a very smart guy with great genetic potential who fell to pieces after he lost to Swartzenneger. His ego had him thinking he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and when he lost that final contest to Arnold he went home crying like a baby rather than continuing to compete and trying to kick Arnolds or someone elses butt later. He quit !
You say it was an illness not totally created by himself? Who else might have created this illness of his other than stupid doctors administering him drugs? For that matter, he administered most of the stuff to himself.
Waynes wrote:
Mike Mentzer never did HIT, if he did it might have been for a few weeks.
If you had seen him training {no I did not} you would have know this.
Wayne
===Scott==
I used to work out with Mike Mentzer at Spartan Gym on Paint Branch road in Md and yes he did do HIT. It was one of the first gyms in the area to get Nautilus. That is where I got the hankering for HIT. He did one or two sets per machine, mostly one and was in and out quickly.
He could literally stack almost every machine while I might use 40 pounds but we both shared the same effort of intensity so we got along pretty good. It wasn't about how much we could lift but how hard we tried.
==Scott==
I courious as to what you feel his mental illness was if it was not his ego? To me he was a very smart guy with great genetic potential who fell to pieces after he lost to Swartzenneger. His ego had him thinking he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and when he lost that final contest to Arnold he went home crying like a baby rather than continuing to compete and trying to kick Arnolds or someone elses butt later. He quit !
You say it was an illness not totally created by himself? Who else might have created this illness of his other than stupid doctors administering him drugs? For that matter, he administered most of the stuff to himself.
Erm, are you trying to suggest that mental illness is caused by ego?! Are you saying Mentzer brought illness on himself simply because he lost a tournament? I think you've got this the wrong way round. He went off the edge after losing the '80 olympia because he had severe mental illness. Losing the Olympia didn't give him the illness in the first place!
I'm sorry but I work with a lot of mentally ill people suffering terrible problems and it annoys me somewhat when glib statements are batted about with no thought behind them.
It was tragic what happened to Mike Mentzer in his later life and trying to argue that he brought it all on himself is rather insulting to say the least.
==Scott==
I courious as to what you feel his mental illness was if it was not his ego? To me he was a very smart guy with great genetic potential who fell to pieces after he lost to Swartzenneger. His ego had him thinking he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and when he lost that final contest to Arnold he went home crying like a baby rather than continuing to compete and trying to kick Arnolds or someone elses butt later. He quit !
You say it was an illness not totally created by himself? Who else might have created this illness of his other than stupid doctors administering him drugs? For that matter, he administered most of the stuff to himself.
Erm, are you trying to suggest that mental illness is caused by ego?! Are you saying Mentzer brought illness on himself simply because he lost a tournament? I think you've got this the wrong way round. He went off the edge after losing the '80 olympia because he had severe mental illness. Losing the Olympia didn't give him the illness in the first place!
I'm sorry but I work with a lot of mentally ill people suffering terrible problems and it annoys me somewhat when glib statements are batted about with no thought behind them.
It was tragic what happened to Mike Mentzer in his later life and trying to argue that he brought it all on himself is rather insulting to say the least.
Rogue, As you have experience in the field, id like to hear you opinion of Mentzers condition.Was it genetics? or induced by drugs?
==Scott==
I courious as to what you feel his mental illness was if it was not his ego? To me he was a very smart guy with great genetic potential who fell to pieces after he lost to Swartzenneger. His ego had him thinking he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and when he lost that final contest to Arnold he went home crying like a baby rather than continuing to compete and trying to kick Arnolds or someone elses butt later. He quit !
You say it was an illness not totally created by himself? Who else might have created this illness of his other than stupid doctors administering him drugs? For that matter, he administered most of the stuff to himself.
Erm, are you trying to suggest that mental illness is caused by ego?! Are you saying Mentzer brought illness on himself simply because he lost a tournament? I think you've got this the wrong way round. He went off the edge after losing the '80 olympia because he had severe mental illness. Losing the Olympia didn't give him the illness in the first place!
I'm sorry but I work with a lot of mentally ill people suffering terrible problems and it annoys me somewhat when glib statements are batted about with no thought behind them.
It was tragic what happened to Mike Mentzer in his later life and trying to argue that he brought it all on himself is rather insulting to say the least.
Rogue, As you have experience in the field, id like to hear you opinion of Mentzers condition.Was it genetics? or induced by drugs?
===Scott==
No I'm not trying to say his so called mental illness was caused by his big ego, I'm just saying his big ego was one of his biggest reasons for his downfall.No, losing the Olympia didn't cause him to have mental illness, it was just the final big stroke that sent him down a bad path. What was this mental illness Mentzer had that you refer too anyway and if he didn't bring most of his problems onto himself then who did? Joe Weider??
As far as insulting goes, you are pretty good at that yourself for someone who supposedly works with troubled people. Nothing I have to say is ever batted about with little thought behind it. I'm very well informed on Mike Mentzer and his troubles. Maybe you should practice what you preach.
entsminger wrote:
Rogue HIT wrote:
entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Whether Mike Mentzer was right or wrong on all the issues about building muscle has nothing to do with the fact that he was a very intelligent guy. I've read just about everything published years ago about muscle building and Mentzer is right up there with Jones and Darden in his thinking process. He was a very smart guy and dumb at the same time.
Aren't we all?:)
His biggest problem was an ego that led to his self destruction.
Not really, Mentzer's biggest problem was terrible mental illness and he certainly didn't create it himself!
==Scott==
I courious as to what you feel his mental illness was if it was not his ego? To me he was a very smart guy with great genetic potential who fell to pieces after he lost to Swartzenneger. His ego had him thinking he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and when he lost that final contest to Arnold he went home crying like a baby rather than continuing to compete and trying to kick Arnolds or someone elses butt later. He quit !
You say it was an illness not totally created by himself? Who else might have created this illness of his other than stupid doctors administering him drugs? For that matter, he administered most of the stuff to himself.
I was lucky enough to have had quite a bit of contact with Mike and the people around him (back in the day).
I must say that when I was around him, he seemed pretty normal, but if I had to guess, I would speculate he had father issues. He bounced back and forth between Joe and Arthur looking for that father thing.
Armand Tanny and I had lunch one day where he said that Joe considered Mike like a son and wanted to prepare him for the Weider Empire (since Joe's real son was not at all into it)
Mike however by this time was soured on both AJ and JW and was trying to develop "his own" level of what each of them had already achieved. He had a Magazine deal (of which he was the head) and he was writing like crazy (after having very good exposure via Joe, Bob Kennedy and John Balick)
He was excited about the chance to rise to the level of his mentors and become a possible equal.
But although I didn't see it happen, I think the difficulties he encountered personally and professionally proved insurmountable and between things crumbling a bit, and not being able to "finish on top", running a business and not having the time to train, having residual physical problems, emotional problems and indulging in drugs that were just TOO available, he floundered and fell, deeply and simply NEVER recovered.
He also had Ray to look after and Ray never lived up to his huge potential (which many thought was greater than Mike's)
Lots of interactive dynamics there that were very difficult to handle. Sometimes too much success can present too many opportunities and reduce ones ability to move forward. Instead you begin taking on "horizontal" loads and haven't established the foundation (physically, and emotionally) to handle it.
Some pull it off (like AJ and Arnold as examples) and others get buried. Mike was not equipped for it. But I think most who knew him personally would agree, he was a great guy.
