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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
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Most Effective Way to Lose Fat?
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DrFist

hey guys, i'm getting ready to start cutting and was wondering what is best recommended on here? i know mike believed in pure calorie reduction as the best means, but wouldn't this bring about the loss of muscle when the calorie intake continually gets lower and lower until the end when you're only taking in 600-800 calories a day?

i know mike was only taking in 500 calories a day in the week up to the mr. o contest in '80.

thanks all.
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Bullen-Whatling

I've tried various different methods of cutting. First time around I used just a regular low calorie diet, eating carbs and such, I think my diet was something like the following -

(I wasn't into weight training at this time)

Breakfast - Special K

Lunch - Special K

Dinner - Pasta Dish with chicken

That was pretty much it, that worked well but I was hungry alot of the time, and performed a lot of cardio in conjuction with it. Lost nearly all of my muscle (mostly because I wasn't training weights when cutting - stupid mistake! :) )

Then second time around I used a pure low carb diet, eating probably 0 - 10gms of carbs a day, and not paying alot of attention to calories -

For Breakfast + lunch

2 bacon + 2 eggs

Dinner -

Fish + eggs / chicken

Didn't lose nearly as much muscle mass.

But my favourite of all has to be the cyclical ketogenic diet that I'm using now,

I eat 500 calories below maintenance of fat/protein - I've got it calculated how much I eat a day (but not on hand right now).

I eat carbs on a Friday, refills some of my glycogen stores, and my workouts are much more intense than with no carbs in the week at all.

I've been steadily losing around 1-2lbs of fat a week, with much improved definition so far and have even gained some strength and size so far - whilst removing size off of my stomach and waist.

So for me it's the CKD (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet), it's easier to stick to aswell because you have Friday to look forward to eat those carbs you've been craving so much! I know it may not be the best way, but I eat what I like on a Friday - and the next day I've still lost weight. Keeps your metabolism roaring too!

Hope this helps.

Rob
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

DrFist wrote:
hey guys, i'm getting ready to start cutting and was wondering what is best recommended on here? i know mike believed in pure calorie reduction as the best means, but wouldn't this bring about the loss of muscle when the calorie intake continually gets lower and lower until the end when you're only taking in 600-800 calories a day?

i know mike was only taking in 500 calories a day in the week up to the mr. o contest in '80.

thanks all.


==Scott==
Forget what Mike might have done before the Mr. O. he was on drugs a plenty so it has little bearing on what a normal person should do.
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SteveHIT

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Forget what Mike might have done before the Mr. O. he was on drugs a plenty so it has little bearing on what a normal person should do.


Agreed, try his 500cal diet and say goodbye to your muscle.
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sonny153

I've tried lots of things over the years and I really believe it just comes down to calories. I cut to about 1700 per day (my maintenance level at about 10% bodyfat is around 2500) and that allows me to drop about a pound maybe every 7 - 10 days and I'm still able to eat fairly comfortably.

If I want abs that are really sharp, I may have to go lower for awhile, maybe a couple weeks, but I don't like to go too low for too long as my strength starts to suffer.
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SteveHIT

http://www.jissn.com/.../content/1/2/21
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smanjh

SteveHIT wrote:
entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Forget what Mike might have done before the Mr. O. he was on drugs a plenty so it has little bearing on what a normal person should do.

Agreed, try his 500cal diet and say goodbye to your muscle.


LOL.

There is individual difference of course, but generally you can not look at one guy and think it will automatically be just fact and something to follow.

It gives you a range for experimentation though. My biggest successes come from tailoring something down in accordance to what has worked before.
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smanjh

Here is my simple plan from going from 40% to around 20%: Eat less. Bodyweight x 10.

Going from 20%-15%- start reducing carbs somewhat while keeping protein the same, gradually arrive at 15%.

15%-10%: Keep reducing carbs, possibly add fat, so now your probably at like 40-40-20 with carbs-protein-fat.

10%-5%: Carb cycling. 50%p, 30%f, 20%c.

Then of course raise carbs every third day.

The 10%-5% method has been told to me by competitors and I never actually got motivated to take it that far before.

This would work well for any level, but it creates needless suffering when the exact same thing can be accomplished easier by simply reducing calories.

The issue with muscle retention and then fat loss at the last stage is why the carb cycling works best, and it would assuming you were monstrous at 300 pounds and only needing to come down to like 270 (Jay Cutlerish BBer).

But, the other macro levels has you being able to actually increase strength and muscle while reducing fat assuming your strength is climbing. The muscle growth won't be as good as it should be though.
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krazy kaju

Let's get the facts straight: You need fat and protein to build muscle. Your body uses fats to produce hormones, while protein is the building block for muscle.

Carbs are a cheap source of energy and no thing else. Your muscle glycogen stores won't even replenish until AFTER your muscles have recovered/grown, so I believe that following something along the lines of a "targeted ketogenic diet" might make sense.

A targeted ketogenic diet is a diet where you cut practically all carbs (except for a few micronutrient-rich veggies and fruits) from your diet, and then about an hour before your workout, you eat a large portion of simple carbs (e.g. have a small frosty from Wendy's). The carbs help restore your muscle glycogen right before your workout. They also spike your insulin, which is an anabolic hormone. And when you work out, you'll burn all of those carbs out of your muscle and liver, bringing you back into ketosis (the state at which your body burns fat and not carbs).
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NewYorker

New York, USA

1) drink plenty of water
2) eat three or more small well balanced meals a day
3) aim for 1500 to 1700 calories a day depending upon your weight and activity level.
4) try to get a brisk 30 to 45 minute walk every day
5) avoid refined foods
6) avoid calorie dense foods (calories per gram or volume)
7) keep low calorie snacks around: celery, carrots etc.
8) avoid artificial sweeteners
9) avoid alcohol
10) when your fat loss starts to slow drop another 100 calories a day
11) apply discipline to your eating habits
12) substitute another activity for recreational/emotional eating
13) eat low calorie vegetables as frequently as possible: lettuce, broccoli, etc.
14) consider green or white tea
15) have fruit and water instead of fruit juice and sugared drinks
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DrFist

hey newyorker, thanks for the info man.

so it's really just a matter of maintaining a low calorie intake?
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gerry-hitman

NewYorker wrote:
1) drink plenty of water
2) eat three or more small well balanced meals a day
3) aim for 1500 to 1700 calories a day depending upon your weight and activity level.
4) try to get a brisk 30 to 45 minute walk every day
5) avoid refined foods
6) avoid calorie dense foods (calories per gram or volume)
7) keep low calorie snacks around: celery, carrots etc.
8) avoid artificial sweeteners
9) avoid alcohol
10) when your fat loss starts to slow drop another 100 calories a day
11) apply discipline to your eating habits
12) substitute another activity for recreational/emotional eating
13) eat low calorie vegetables as frequently as possible: lettuce, broccoli, etc.
14) consider green or white tea
15) have fruit and water instead of fruit juice and sugared drinks


WRONG
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NewYorker

New York, USA

DrFist wrote:
hey newyorker, thanks for the info man.

so it's really just a matter of maintaining a low calorie intake?


That is my opinion. Balance and discipline. Many of Ellington Darden's books offer some very sound diet advice.

He also has a cold water scheme which facilitates fat loss. The concept is simple, the water leaving is 98.6F and requires calories to be heated to that temperature.

I would suggest Google'ing some of the independent studies made on the high fat and zizag calorie/macronutrient schemes. I have never seen anyone who had long term success on them.

In addition, a gradual reduction in calories is the best method of slowing the aging process.

IMO, you can "cut" on a well balanced low-calorie diet.
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perrymk

For a different approach to fat loss, has anyone tried liposuction?

Is it expensive? What is the recovery time like? How effective was it for you? Do people eventually gain the weight back or does it make it easier to keep weight off long term?

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DrFist

gerry-hitman wrote:
NewYorker wrote:
1) drink plenty of water
2) eat three or more small well balanced meals a day
3) aim for 1500 to 1700 calories a day depending upon your weight and activity level.
4) try to get a brisk 30 to 45 minute walk every day
5) avoid refined foods
6) avoid calorie dense foods (calories per gram or volume)
7) keep low calorie snacks around: celery, carrots etc.
8) avoid artificial sweeteners
9) avoid alcohol
10) when your fat loss starts to slow drop another 100 calories a day
11) apply discipline to your eating habits
12) substitute another activity for recreational/emotional eating
13) eat low calorie vegetables as frequently as possible: lettuce, broccoli, etc.
14) consider green or white tea
15) have fruit and water instead of fruit juice and sugared drinks


WRONG


what's wrong?
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theHITman

NewYorker wrote:
1) drink plenty of water
2) eat three or more small well balanced meals a day
3) aim for 1500 to 1700 calories a day depending upon your weight and activity level.
4) try to get a brisk 30 to 45 minute walk every day
5) avoid refined foods
6) avoid calorie dense foods (calories per gram or volume)
7) keep low calorie snacks around: celery, carrots etc.
8) avoid artificial sweeteners
9) avoid alcohol
10) when your fat loss starts to slow drop another 100 calories a day
11) apply discipline to your eating habits
12) substitute another activity for recreational/emotional eating
13) eat low calorie vegetables as frequently as possible: lettuce, broccoli, etc.
14) consider green or white tea
15) have fruit and water instead of fruit juice and sugared drinks


Well summarised. You won't find better advice than this in such a concise manner.

The Florida Dreaming thread has a complete meal plan ready to go I believe.
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DrFist

ok, thanks guys.

so it's really just a matter of decreasing calories?

what about training though? doesn't it become unbearably hard on low cals? particularly towards the end?
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Landau

Florida, USA

No, that is where you must have a SL of Patience. If you slightly and gradually reduce/adjust your "personal" intake of calories, it shouldn't be hard. If you try and get there in a hurry, it will be hard. These adjustments must be done extremely gradual. Zero Calorie Sweeteners/Sodas can be of assistance.

Do not change your lifestyle to a jail sentence - eat less of what you have personally eaten over the years, the rest is common sense.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Landau wrote:
No, that is where you must have a SL of Patience. If you slightly and gradually reduce/adjust your "personal" intake of calories, it shouldn't be hard. If you try and get there in a hurry, it will be hard. These adjustments must be done extremely gradual. Zero Calorie Sweeteners/Sodas can be of assistance.

Do not change your lifestyle to a jail sentence - eat less of what you have personally eaten over the years, the rest is common sense.


===Scott==
Good advice except for the zero/diet calorie drinks. Pure Poison.
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coomo

Landau wrote:
No, that is where you must have a SL of Patience. If you slightly and gradually reduce/adjust your "personal" intake of calories, it shouldn't be hard. If you try and get there in a hurry, it will be hard. These adjustments must be done extremely gradual. Zero Calorie Sweeteners/Sodas can be of assistance.

Do not change your lifestyle to a jail sentence - eat less of what you have personally eaten over the years, the rest is common sense.

As usual, logical solid advice from Dave.In January i was 222lb.this morning i was 184lb.Ive consistantly gotten stronger, (weekly w/o)take a 30 min walk most mornings, and am currenty on approx 1800 cals.This hasnt been solid dieting, i stopped for 3 months.im now shedding about one lb a week.another 10ish lbs should be where i want to be.

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