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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Why Did Viator Leave Jones?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott=
DR. Darden, almost every day (thanks to Tony)I have been enjoying your book, New bodybuilding for old school results. In the article about Roger Schwab he says that he thinks Viator never really reached his potential and could have gotten even bigger had he stayed with Jones methods longer.

Why did Viator split from training under Jones? It does seem that he stayed with Jones a relatively short time??
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Lioncourt

I'm not Darden, but have read an interview with Casey about this. He seems to indicate it's because he really wanted to get involved with competing in the IFBB and felt he needed to be out in California. Gold's Gym in Venice was pretty much the Mecca and where every bodybuilder at the time wanted to train. Casey probably wasn't immune to this either.
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theHITman

This may or may not be what you're looking for:

"I left Nautilus and Arthur Jones basically because I had a great need to compete again. This is in the latter part of 1978. Mr. Jones did not want me to compete anymore and I felt I had what it took to win Pro IFBB shows, which I did win 2 ? the Pro Grand Prix in 1980 and also took third in the 1982 Mr. Olympia. So, I think I proved my point. There was also a problem with my wages, which we fought over repeatedly. So, I felt it was time to move on."
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

theHITman wrote:
This may or may not be what you're looking for:

"I left Nautilus and Arthur Jones basically because I had a great need to compete again. This is in the latter part of 1978. Mr. Jones did not want me to compete anymore and I felt I had what it took to win Pro IFBB shows, which I did win 2 ? the Pro Grand Prix in 1980 and also took third in the 1982 Mr. Olympia. So, I think I proved my point. There was also a problem with my wages, which we fought over repeatedly. So, I felt it was time to move on."


==Scott==
Interesting?? I wonder why Jones wouldn't have wanted Casey to compete any more?? I'm sure there was fuss over wages and many other things. I'm sure Jones was a hard man to work for. I don't know how Ellington stood it so long, ha ha..
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Lioncourt wrote:
I'm not Darden, but have read an interview with Casey about this. He seems to indicate it's because he really wanted to get involved with competing in the IFBB and felt he needed to be out in California. Gold's Gym in Venice was pretty much the Mecca and where every bodybuilder at the time wanted to train. Casey probably wasn't immune to this either.


==Scott==
I'm sure hanging around Nautilus wasn't as fun as being at the California gyms were all the big guys were.
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Landau

Florida, USA

Hanging out at Nautilus was FUN!
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Landau wrote:
Hanging out at Nautilus was FUN!


==Scott==
I often regret that when I visited Nautilus in 1974 that I didn't try and get some kind of job there. Even if it was just sweeping up the aluminum shavings from cam grindings on the shop floor that would have been better than just about anything I was doing at that time. It would have been wonderful to be a fly on the wall to see how it all happened!
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Ellington Darden

After Casey won the AAU Mr. America in 1971, Jones wanted for him to enter and win the NABBA Mr. Universe. And his plan included bringing in Sergio Oliva, training him, and having Sergio win the professional division of NABBA's contest.

Casey and his parents got into a falling out with Jones over Casey's employment and wages. Casey went back to Louisiana and Jones brought in Sergio. Jones trained Sergio for two months and took him to London for the NABBA contest. That developed into a huge problem with Bill Pearl winning over Sergio, which I described in my book, The New Bodybuilding for Old-School Results.

A year later, Casey and Arthur got back together and Casey returned to Florida. But Jones and Casey's relationship was never quite the same. Jones thought that Casey's return to competition in 1978 was a mistake . . . that he'd had been a true legend if he'd retired and stayed retired.

Ellington

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Ellington Darden wrote:
After Casey won the AAU Mr. America in 1971, Jones wanted for him to enter and win the NABBA Mr. Universe. And his plan included bringing in Sergio Oliva, training him, and having Sergio win the professional division of NABBA's contest.

Casey and his parents got into a falling out with Jones over Casey's employment and wages. Casey went back to Louisiana and Jones brought in Sergio. Jones trained Sergio for two months and took him to London for the NABBA contest. That developed into a huge problem with Bill Pearl winning over Sergio, which I described in my book, The New Bodybuilding for Old-School Results.

A year later, Casey and Arthur got back together and Casey returned to Florida. But Jones and Casey's relationship was never quite the same. Jones thought that Casey's return to competition in 1978 was a mistake . . . that he'd had been a true legend if he'd retired and stayed retired.

Ellington



==Scott==
Intersting, Jones thought Casey would have been a true legend if he had stayed retired, like he isn't a legend now, ha ha..It would have been interesting to see if Casey would have got much bigger or better had he continued on with Jones teachings? I'm guessing he would have got even bigger but who knows? Thanks Ellington!!! Love your book man!!
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HeavyHitter32

So, Casey pretty much switched to volume training after Jones, correct?
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dhitquinn

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
So, Casey pretty much switched to volume training after Jones, correct?


I remember reading a magazine and it listed Sergio Olivas arm routine, it honestly had about 40 sets in it i found it strange why someone who had experienced great results with Jones would have switched to about 30-40 times the sets.

I guess when you have genetics like those two guys it doesnt matter what you do
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

ddhitquinn wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
So, Casey pretty much switched to volume training after Jones, correct?

I remember reading a magazine and it listed Sergio Olivas arm routine, it honestly had about 40 sets in it i found it strange why someone who had experienced great results with Jones would have switched to about 30-40 times the sets.

I guess when you have genetics like those two guys it doesnt matter what you do


==Scott==
Exactly!! I think it also has something to do with the love of being at the gym. I know some on here wish to get their workout done and get out of the gym as quick as possible but others including myself love working out and being in the gym as much as possible not as little as possible so doing set after set can be something to look forward to.

I just think the 40 sets per body part to be way overboard. Cut that down to about 4 or 5 sets per body part and you could still have fun being in the gym without actually living there, ha ha..
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backtrack

Viator and Oliva etc were probably content to try and make a living from bodybuilding.

This wouldn't have worked well being trained by Arthur Jones - What would they do in all their spare time? This is maybe why Mike Mentzer had his head in the clouds all the time...

Do what all the other bodybuilders are doing on the other hand...shit loads of sets...lots of posing shoots etc...and a significantly greater proportion of time is filled.

And I must admit if I was in a position where I could just pose and workout for a living rather than do that as well as hold down a full time job I probably would.

Dan

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Turpin

From interviews I read Viator was of the opinion that ALL sensible approaches to training worked not just HIT ( which is true , moreso if you are taking huge amounts of steroids ) , and I would imagine if he was to be any kind of success on the bodybuilding scene it would have been foolhardy to isolate himself ( or espouse ideals ) too far from the Weiders` way of thinking.

And after reading Bob Paris` book `Gorilla suit` I would lean more to the above.

Just my opinion. T.
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HeavyHitter32

ddhitquinn wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
So, Casey pretty much switched to volume training after Jones, correct?

I remember reading a magazine and it listed Sergio Olivas arm routine, it honestly had about 40 sets in it i found it strange why someone who had experienced great results with Jones would have switched to about 30-40 times the sets.

I guess when you have genetics like those two guys it doesnt matter what you do


Quite true.

I also seem to remember that while Casey looked a bit more defined when he left Jones, he didn't look quite as large - but maybe he was just leaner.
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Tony Williams

Turpin wrote:
From interviews I read Viator was of the opinion that ALL sensible approaches to training worked not just HIT ( which is true , moreso if you are taking huge amounts of steroids ) , and I would imagine if he was to be any kind of success on the bodybuilding scene it would have been foolhardy to isolate himself ( or espouse ideals ) too far from the Weiders` way of thinking.

And after reading Bob Paris` book `Gorilla suit` I would lean more to the above.

Just my opinion. T.


Yes, Paris paints quite a bleak picture for any bodybuilder that crossed either of the Weiders.

Tony
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Tony Williams

ddhitquinn wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
So, Casey pretty much switched to volume training after Jones, correct?

I remember reading a magazine and it listed Sergio Olivas arm routine, it honestly had about 40 sets in it i found it strange why someone who had experienced great results with Jones would have switched to about 30-40 times the sets.

I guess when you have genetics like those two guys it doesnt matter what you do


Genetics and little pills.

Tony

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Tony Williams

Just scanned this briefly (Viator's favorite magazines are "Penthouse" and "Ironman") ... an interview with Casey Viator:

http://digilander.libero.it/.../interview.html

Tony

P.S. Someone should have edited this before publishing it.
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smanjh

Anyone else think Viator looked his best in the early 80's?

I would think, maybe, the drug changes made a huge difference possibly as I doubt doing volume would make such a difference really.
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krazy kaju

Tony Williams wrote:
Just scanned this briefly (Viator's favorite magazines are "Penthouse" and "Ironman") ... an interview with Casey Viator:

http://digilander.libero.it/.../interview.html

Tony

P.S. Someone should have edited this before publishing it.


According to the interview, Casey continued to use HIT after he stopped working with Arthur Jones:
BDJ: Did you continue HIT style training after your time with Jones?
CV: Absolutely. This technique is what my physique was built upon.

BDJ: That's an interesting point considering many magazines had you performing twelve or more sets per muscle group, training 5-6 days a week. Apparently propaganda to enforce the volume style of training. Do you recommend HIT today, and explain your current method of training?
CV: I use HIT in every workout and also advise people on my website to train in this fashion as well. My training has not changed in years and usually I do a 2-day-on-one-day-off, 2-day-on- weekends-off.
For example: Monday (chest, biceps, calves); Tuesday (shoulders, full leg workout); Wednesday (off); Thursday (upper and lower back, triceps, calves); Friday (priority day, which is working body parts that are lagging behind to improve your symmetry).
My workouts last no more than 45 minutes to 1 hour, so I am moving fast to complete everything. Many of my clients follow the same routine, although the whole body workouts are still recommended for extra growth inroads.


Not as low volume as a lot of HIT trainees use now, but HIT nonetheless.
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H.I.T. Believer

ddhitquinn wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
So, Casey pretty much switched to volume training after Jones, correct?

I remember reading a magazine and it listed Sergio Olivas arm routine, it honestly had about 40 sets in it i found it strange why someone who had experienced great results with Jones would have switched to about 30-40 times the sets.

I guess when you have genetics like those two guys it doesnt matter what you do






SERGIO REGRETTED LEAVING JONES..HE SAID HE MADE HIS BEST GAINS EVER TRAINING WITH JONES AND WISHED HE HAD STAYED THERE..

REMEMBER, THE WEIDERS CONTROLLED EVERYTHING AND IF YOU WANTED TO BE A BODYBUILDING CHAMPION YOU HAD TO DO THINGS HIS WAY AND LIVE IN HIS WORLD WHICH WAS OPPOSIITE OF NAUTILUS AND ARTHUR JONES [WEIDER ACTUALLY HAD BEEN THREATENED BY JONES FOR SOME TIME AND CONSIDERED HIM A RIVAL IN THE BUISNESS]

SERGIO LATER SAID THAT ARTHUR JONES WAS THE ONLY REAL HONEST MAN HE HAD EVER MET IN BODYBUILDING - A FINE COMPLIMENT.

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cmg

Ellington Darden wrote:
After Casey won the AAU Mr. America in 1971, Jones wanted for him to enter and win the NABBA Mr. Universe. And his plan included bringing in Sergio Oliva, training him, and having Sergio win the professional division of NABBA's contest.

Casey and his parents got into a falling out with Jones over Casey's employment and wages. Casey went back to Louisiana and Jones brought in Sergio. Jones trained Sergio for two months and took him to London for the NABBA contest. That developed into a huge problem with Bill Pearl winning over Sergio, which I described in my book, The New Bodybuilding for Old-School Results.

A year later, Casey and Arthur got back together and Casey returned to Florida. But Jones and Casey's relationship was never quite the same. Jones thought that Casey's return to competition in 1978 was a mistake . . . that he'd had been a true legend if he'd retired and stayed retired.

Ellington




Hi Dr. D,

Just curious to know - how did Arthur pay? Was he fairly stingy?

I know you wrote books etc. and made money that way as you worked for him but others who didn't - were the wages pretty low?

Casey could have done a TON to make extra cash after 1971 - conduct seminars on his own. Write a book regarding his "secret training tips". Probably would have sold out - if advertised through the magazines at a low price.

Regards,

Ron
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NewYorker

New York, USA

Tony Williams wrote:
ddhitquinn wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
So, Casey pretty much switched to volume training after Jones, correct?

I remember reading a magazine and it listed Sergio Olivas arm routine, it honestly had about 40 sets in it i found it strange why someone who had experienced great results with Jones would have switched to about 30-40 times the sets.

I guess when you have genetics like those two guys it doesnt matter what you do

Genetics and little pills.

Tony



..and needles
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Ellington Darden

Ron,

With me, Arthur was always fair. Arthur trusted me and let me do just about anything that was reasonable and related to Nautilus. The few problems that we had were small and settled promptly.

From my point of view, it was a great time working with Arthur and Nautilus in the 1970s and 80s.

Ellington
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southbeach

I thought Arthur was terrific..WYSIWYG. He was a mover & a shaker. R.I.P. sadly missed
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