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Ellington Darden

Outside of those two "minor" injuries, we've had no major problems. But it does take two or three training sessions to get the resistance just right on eight different machines. And perhaps most important, two or three sessions to understand the proper use of the equipment.

A one-workout try is not enough to judge X-Force.

Ellington
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overfiftylifter

Thank you for your response Dr. Darden. Perhaps they need some knowledgable trainers to show them the proper use of the equipment before they make any further judgements.
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cmg

Ellington Darden wrote:
Joe's been stable at 190-192 pounds for more than 15 years. He's now at 199-201 pounds. He's also lost several pounds of fat, so his muscle gain may be more than 10 pounds. I attribute it to the negative training and the fact that he's training less and resting more.

Ellington



Just amazing! I am curious why the results are better than just negative training? Do you think it's because the positive portion is being used also?

Wish I could do that workout!!

Great job Dr. D and Joe!!

Best regards,

Ron
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cmg

Ellington Darden wrote:
Joe's been stable at 190-192 pounds for more than 15 years. He's now at 199-201 pounds. He's also lost several pounds of fat, so his muscle gain may be more than 10 pounds. I attribute it to the negative training and the fact that he's training less and resting more.

Ellington



I would imagine that Joe used negative training before and assume that he didn't have these spectacular results or he would have continued and have been 200 lbs. There must be a reason why he gain 10+ lbs at his age after only 9 workouts?

Thank you,

Ron
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Ellington Darden

cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Joe's been stable at 190-192 pounds for more than 15 years. He's now at 199-201 pounds. He's also lost several pounds of fat, so his muscle gain may be more than 10 pounds. I attribute it to the negative training and the fact that he's training less and resting more.

Ellington


I would imagine that Joe used negative training before and assume that he didn't have these spectacular results or he would have continued and have been 200 lbs. There must be a reason why he gain 10+ lbs at his age after only 9 workouts?

Thank you,

Ron


The deeper demand from the X-Force training, combined with more rest and sleep, made the difference in Joe's gain of 10 pounds of muscle.

Ellington

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HamsFitness

Ellington Darden wrote:

The deeper demand from the X-Force training, combined with more rest and sleep, made the difference in Joe's gain of 10 pounds of muscle.

Ellington



Would I be correct in assuming the movements themselves are new to Joe?

Do you feel this was a factor in his success?

Regards,

Richard
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Ellington Darden

HamsFitness wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:

The deeper demand from the X-Force training, combined with more rest and sleep, made the difference in Joe's gain of 10 pounds of muscle.

Ellington



Would I be correct in assuming the movements themselves are new to Joe?

Do you feel this was a factor in his success?

Regards,

Richard


The movements were standard, such as the chest press, pullover, overhead press, pulldown, leg press, and leg curl. What was not standard was the application of the 40% extra negative resistance.

Ellington

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cmg

Ellington Darden wrote:
cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Joe's been stable at 190-192 pounds for more than 15 years. He's now at 199-201 pounds. He's also lost several pounds of fat, so his muscle gain may be more than 10 pounds. I attribute it to the negative training and the fact that he's training less and resting more.

Ellington


I would imagine that Joe used negative training before and assume that he didn't have these spectacular results or he would have continued and have been 200 lbs. There must be a reason why he gain 10+ lbs at his age after only 9 workouts?

Thank you,

Ron

The deeper demand from the X-Force training, combined with more rest and sleep, made the difference in Joe's gain of 10 pounds of muscle.

Ellington




As usual - thank you Dr. Is there any way that you can think of to duplicate those results NOT using the X-Force machines? Something we can try ourselves? I workout mainly at a tennis club by my home that has a good amount of MedX equipment.

Best regards,

Ron

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HamsFitness

Ellington Darden wrote:


The movements were standard, such as the chest press, pullover, overhead press, pulldown, leg press, and leg curl. What was not standard was the application of the 40% extra negative resistance.

Ellington



Thank you for input
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Ellington Darden

For 40 years, I've been trying to duplicate the X-Force results that I had in Gainesville. Now that I've seen and experienced the achievements, I'll be giving some serious thought to workable solutions to your question:

How to get X-Force results without X-Force equipment?

Ellington

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Tony Williams

Ellington Darden wrote:
For 40 years, I've been trying to duplicate the X-Force results that I had in Gainesville. Now that I've seen and experienced the achievements, I'll be giving some serious thought to workable solutions to your question:

How to get X-Force results without X-Force equipment?

Ellington



Dr. Darden:

One question about the one-rep negative chin and dip that Joe performed in some of his workouts:

When he pulled himself to the top and began the exercise, did he hold himself at the top until he was exhausted and had to lower himself slowly? In other words, did he perform a static hold at the top until he could no longer hold that position and then began to lower himself?

Or once in position at the top, did he immediately begin lowering himself as slowly as possible?

Tony
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Ellington Darden

Tony,

Usually, I have a trainee hold the top position for 10 seconds and then begin lowering inch by inch. Few people can make a 60-second lowering the first time they try it.

Ellington
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bobj

How fast is the positive part of the rep in the negative chins and dips? Or is their no positive movement at all and you just start at the top, hold for 10 seconds and begin the negative descent?
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Ellington Darden

bobj wrote:
How fast is the positive part of the rep in the negative chins and dips? Or is their no positive movement at all and you just start at the top, hold for 10 seconds and begin the negative descent?


In this style, there is no positive. You start at the top and do one, slow, negative repetition. It should last from 30-60 seconds.

Ellington

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HeavyHitter32

Ellington Darden wrote:
For 40 years, I've been trying to duplicate the X-Force results that I had in Gainesville. Now that I've seen and experienced the achievements, I'll be giving some serious thought to workable solutions to your question:

How to get X-Force results without X-Force equipment?

Ellington



Looking forward to that. I believe you alluded to a new book at some point?
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fbcoach

cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Joe's been stable at 190-192 pounds for more than 15 years. He's now at 199-201 pounds. He's also lost several pounds of fat, so his muscle gain may be more than 10 pounds. I attribute it to the negative training and the fact that he's training less and resting more.

Ellington


I would imagine that Joe used negative training before and assume that he didn't have these spectacular results or he would have continued and have been 200 lbs. There must be a reason why he gain 10+ lbs at his age after only 9 workouts?

Thank you,

Ron

The deeper demand from the X-Force training, combined with more rest and sleep, made the difference in Joe's gain of 10 pounds of muscle.

Ellington




As usual - thank you Dr. Is there any way that you can think of to duplicate those results NOT using the X-Force machines? Something we can try ourselves? I workout mainly at a tennis club by my home that has a good amount of MedX equipment.

Best regards,

Ron



Hi Dr Darden,
I thought I would echo Ron's request. Last year I performed a basic routine of similar exercises as your clients. I trained 1x/every 5 days and I increased my calories gradually by about 1000/day. I was really surprised by my results. As an advanced Trainee at 53yrs of age and Health issues, I made (for me) dramatic results.

Anyway, I have to have one last surgery in a couple of weeks, where my Neurosurgeon will recoonect my spinal pump, then I will recover for a week or 2, then restart my Training again. I am very interested in duplicating everything that you did in this study, sans the X-Force machines.

Could you possibly give us a description of how to perform NA exercise on HammerStrength machines? Would we have a partner use manual resistance? This may not be exact, I know. Or, could we have a partner add a weight on the machine as we perform the negative portion, then strip it off as we begin the positive portion of the rep?

That may be hard to do, but any suggestions woulkd be appreciated. If you are unable to provide us with an example, I can understand why you may be hesitant. Anyway, I am sure many here appreciate the inspiration you have provided us with this study. To that, I say thank you and hope you may help.
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Ellington Darden

fbcoach wrote:
cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Joe's been stable at 190-192 pounds for more than 15 years. He's now at 199-201 pounds. He's also lost several pounds of fat, so his muscle gain may be more than 10 pounds. I attribute it to the negative training and the fact that he's training less and resting more.

Ellington


I would imagine that Joe used negative training before and assume that he didn't have these spectacular results or he would have continued and have been 200 lbs. There must be a reason why he gain 10+ lbs at his age after only 9 workouts?

Thank you,

Ron

The deeper demand from the X-Force training, combined with more rest and sleep, made the difference in Joe's gain of 10 pounds of muscle.

Ellington




As usual - thank you Dr. Is there any way that you can think of to duplicate those results NOT using the X-Force machines? Something we can try ourselves? I workout mainly at a tennis club by my home that has a good amount of MedX equipment.

Best regards,

Ron



Hi Dr Darden,
I thought I would echo Ron's request. Last year I performed a basic routine of similar exercises as your clients. I trained 1x/every 5 days and I increased my calories gradually by about 1000/day. I was really surprised by my results. As an advanced Trainee at 53yrs of age and Health issues, I made (for me) dramatic results.

Anyway, I have to have one last surgery in a couple of weeks, where my Neurosurgeon will recoonect my spinal pump, then I will recover for a week or 2, then restart my Training again. I am very interested in duplicating everything that you did in this study, sans the X-Force machines.

Could you possibly give us a description of how to perform NA exercise on HammerStrength machines? Would we have a partner use manual resistance? This may not be exact, I know. Or, could we have a partner add a weight on the machine as we perform the negative portion, then strip it off as we begin the positive portion of the rep?

That may be hard to do, but any suggestions woulkd be appreciated. If you are unable to provide us with an example, I can understand why you may be hesitant. Anyway, I am sure many here appreciate the inspiration you have provided us with this study. To that, I say thank you and hope you may help.


Several months ago, I talked about doing exactly what you're asking with what I call the 30-30-30 technique. May someone can help locate the thread that contained that material?

Ellington

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fbcoach

Ellington Darden wrote:
fbcoach wrote:
cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
cmg wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Joe's been stable at 190-192 pounds for more than 15 years. He's now at 199-201 pounds. He's also lost several pounds of fat, so his muscle gain may be more than 10 pounds. I attribute it to the negative training and the fact that he's training less and resting more.

Ellington


I would imagine that Joe used negative training before and assume that he didn't have these spectacular results or he would have continued and have been 200 lbs. There must be a reason why he gain 10+ lbs at his age after only 9 workouts?

Thank you,

Ron

The deeper demand from the X-Force training, combined with more rest and sleep, made the difference in Joe's gain of 10 pounds of muscle.

Ellington




As usual - thank you Dr. Is there any way that you can think of to duplicate those results NOT using the X-Force machines? Something we can try ourselves? I workout mainly at a tennis club by my home that has a good amount of MedX equipment.

Best regards,

Ron



Hi Dr Darden,
I thought I would echo Ron's request. Last year I performed a basic routine of similar exercises as your clients. I trained 1x/every 5 days and I increased my calories gradually by about 1000/day. I was really surprised by my results. As an advanced Trainee at 53yrs of age and Health issues, I made (for me) dramatic results.

Anyway, I have to have one last surgery in a couple of weeks, where my Neurosurgeon will recoonect my spinal pump, then I will recover for a week or 2, then restart my Training again. I am very interested in duplicating everything that you did in this study, sans the X-Force machines.

Could you possibly give us a description of how to perform NA exercise on HammerStrength machines? Would we have a partner use manual resistance? This may not be exact, I know. Or, could we have a partner add a weight on the machine as we perform the negative portion, then strip it off as we begin the positive portion of the rep?

That may be hard to do, but any suggestions woulkd be appreciated. If you are unable to provide us with an example, I can understand why you may be hesitant. Anyway, I am sure many here appreciate the inspiration you have provided us with this study. To that, I say thank you and hope you may help.

Several months ago, I talked about doing exactly what you're asking with what I call the 30-30-30 technique. May someone can help locate the thread that contained that material?

Ellington



First, thank you for responding so quick. I will search the site for the words 30-30-30. I will continue training on my basic routine for now, then after I recover from my surgery, I will begin your recommendations as best as I can.

I will train 1x/week.

I will up my calories by 500 in increments, depending upon my condition. Judging from my past experience, when upping my calories by 500/day, if I am building muscle and progressing in strength, my bodyweight stabilizes. At that point, I can maintain that level and my body changes its composition or I can add calories and continue gaining a combination of muscle, fat, and water.

I will perform 5 compound exercises.

The goal will be to increase weight or reps every workout, while maintaining form.

Should I take every set to failure? (Anybody with experience feel free to chime in>) I would like to hear about others experiences, while either using the X-Force machines or a modified version.

Again, thank you Dr Darden for taking the time to respond.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

Just an aside in 1996 I saw Joe use the entire weight stack on a MedX rotary torso , and he made those deliberate, smooth reps look very easy. That amazed me.
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H.I.T. Believer

that is unreal...WOW !!!



Bill Sekerak wrote:
Just an aside in 1996 I saw Joe use the entire weight stack on a MedX rotary torso , and he made those deliberate, smooth reps look very easy. That amazed me.


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J-son

fbcoach wrote:


First, thank you for responding so quick. I will search the site for the words 30-30-30. I will continue training on my basic routine for now, then after I recover from my surgery, I will begin your recommendations as best as I can.

I will train 1x/week.

I will up my calories by 500 in increments, depending upon my condition. Judging from my past experience, when upping my calories by 500/day, if I am building muscle and progressing in strength, my bodyweight stabilizes. At that point, I can maintain that level and my body changes its composition or I can add calories and continue gaining a combination of muscle, fat, and water.

I will perform 5 compound exercises.

The goal will be to increase weight or reps every workout, while maintaining form.

Should I take every set to failure? (Anybody with experience feel free to chime in>) I would like to hear about others experiences, while either using the X-Force machines or a modified version.

Again, thank you Dr Darden for taking the time to respond.


I wrote about my experience with XF here a year ago. It was a mixed experience.

Doing 10-12 excercises, once a week while dieting dident work for me. I looked flat and was literaly beaten to the floor after every session.

Im playing with the idea to give them another chance with a more sensible approach this time (eg less volume).

I probably did underestimate the systamic effect from NA training over time.

//Jonas
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fbcoach

J-son wrote:
fbcoach wrote:


First, thank you for responding so quick. I will search the site for the words 30-30-30. I will continue training on my basic routine for now, then after I recover from my surgery, I will begin your recommendations as best as I can.

I will train 1x/week.

I will up my calories by 500 in increments, depending upon my condition. Judging from my past experience, when upping my calories by 500/day, if I am building muscle and progressing in strength, my bodyweight stabilizes. At that point, I can maintain that level and my body changes its composition or I can add calories and continue gaining a combination of muscle, fat, and water.

I will perform 5 compound exercises.

The goal will be to increase weight or reps every workout, while maintaining form.

Should I take every set to failure? (Anybody with experience feel free to chime in>) I would like to hear about others experiences, while either using the X-Force machines or a modified version.

Again, thank you Dr Darden for taking the time to respond.

I wrote about my experience with XF here a year ago. It was a mixed experience.

Doing 10-12 excercises, once a week while dieting dident work for me. I looked flat and was literaly beaten to the floor after every session.

Im playing with the idea to give them another chance with a more sensible approach this time (eg less volume).

I probably did underestimate the systamic effect from NA training over time.

//Jonas


Agreed. There is no way I could perform 12 exercises to failure and do the last ones any justice. Plus, it would be too hard on my recovery ability, which can cause bad muscle spasms.

The best protocol for me at this time seems to be about 3-5 compound exercises every 4-6 days. This leaves me feeling pumped on my off days and good energy levels. Too much, then this exasperates my pain. Too little, it leaves me without enough stimulation and flat.

I have also found I have to stay within a specific caloric level for whatever I am trying to achieve. If my goal is too lose fat, then I eat between 2000-2500 cals/day. My strength holds steady and I lose fat. To really gain strength and muscle fullness, I eat between 3000-3500 cals/day. This keeps the muscles full and tight without adding very much fat. If I ate 1500 cals/day, I would lose strength and muscle quickly. If I start eating over 3500 cals/day, I tend to bloat up.

In my experience, the only way I see a noticeable increase in muscle size and fullness is when I am using heavier weights in good form. This is not exact, but when I increase my compound exercises by 25-50lbs, I see a solid 3-5lbs of muscle. Whether this is increased fluid in the muscles or actually solid muscle tissue, I can't say, but I have always found an increase in strength pretty much parallels an increase in size.
Open User Options Menu

cmg

fbcoach wrote:
J-son wrote:
fbcoach wrote:


First, thank you for responding so quick. I will search the site for the words 30-30-30. I will continue training on my basic routine for now, then after I recover from my surgery, I will begin your recommendations as best as I can.

I will train 1x/week.

I will up my calories by 500 in increments, depending upon my condition. Judging from my past experience, when upping my calories by 500/day, if I am building muscle and progressing in strength, my bodyweight stabilizes. At that point, I can maintain that level and my body changes its composition or I can add calories and continue gaining a combination of muscle, fat, and water.

I will perform 5 compound exercises.

The goal will be to increase weight or reps every workout, while maintaining form.

Should I take every set to failure? (Anybody with experience feel free to chime in>) I would like to hear about others experiences, while either using the X-Force machines or a modified version.

Again, thank you Dr Darden for taking the time to respond.

I wrote about my experience with XF here a year ago. It was a mixed experience.

Doing 10-12 excercises, once a week while dieting dident work for me. I looked flat and was literaly beaten to the floor after every session.

Im playing with the idea to give them another chance with a more sensible approach this time (eg less volume).

I probably did underestimate the systamic effect from NA training over time.

//Jonas

Agreed. There is no way I could perform 12 exercises to failure and do the last ones any justice. Plus, it would be too hard on my recovery ability, which can cause bad muscle spasms.

The best protocol for me at this time seems to be about 3-5 compound exercises every 4-6 days. This leaves me feeling pumped on my off days and good energy levels. Too much, then this exasperates my pain. Too little, it leaves me without enough stimulation and flat.

I have also found I have to stay within a specific caloric level for whatever I am trying to achieve. If my goal is too lose fat, then I eat between 2000-2500 cals/day. My strength holds steady and I lose fat. To really gain strength and muscle fullness, I eat between 3000-3500 cals/day. This keeps the muscles full and tight without adding very much fat. If I ate 1500 cals/day, I would lose strength and muscle quickly. If I start eating over 3500 cals/day, I tend to bloat up.

In my experience, the only way I see a noticeable increase in muscle size and fullness is when I am using heavier weights in good form. This is not exact, but when I increase my compound exercises by 25-50lbs, I see a solid 3-5lbs of muscle. Whether this is increased fluid in the muscles or actually solid muscle tissue, I can't say, but I have always found an increase in strength pretty much parallels an increase in size.



Hello Coach,

I remember Dr. D writing about the 30-30-30. I believe it's 30 neg, 30 positive - 30 negative. (30 seconds).

I hope your health is OK and good luck with your surgery!

Best regards,

Ron
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fbcoach

cmg wrote:
fbcoach wrote:
J-son wrote:
fbcoach wrote:


First, thank you for responding so quick. I will search the site for the words 30-30-30. I will continue training on my basic routine for now, then after I recover from my surgery, I will begin your recommendations as best as I can.

I will train 1x/week.

I will up my calories by 500 in increments, depending upon my condition. Judging from my past experience, when upping my calories by 500/day, if I am building muscle and progressing in strength, my bodyweight stabilizes. At that point, I can maintain that level and my body changes its composition or I can add calories and continue gaining a combination of muscle, fat, and water.

I will perform 5 compound exercises.

The goal will be to increase weight or reps every workout, while maintaining form.

Should I take every set to failure? (Anybody with experience feel free to chime in>) I would like to hear about others experiences, while either using the X-Force machines or a modified version.

Again, thank you Dr Darden for taking the time to respond.

I wrote about my experience with XF here a year ago. It was a mixed experience.

Doing 10-12 excercises, once a week while dieting dident work for me. I looked flat and was literaly beaten to the floor after every session.

Im playing with the idea to give them another chance with a more sensible approach this time (eg less volume).

I probably did underestimate the systamic effect from NA training over time.

//Jonas

Agreed. There is no way I could perform 12 exercises to failure and do the last ones any justice. Plus, it would be too hard on my recovery ability, which can cause bad muscle spasms.

The best protocol for me at this time seems to be about 3-5 compound exercises every 4-6 days. This leaves me feeling pumped on my off days and good energy levels. Too much, then this exasperates my pain. Too little, it leaves me without enough stimulation and flat.

I have also found I have to stay within a specific caloric level for whatever I am trying to achieve. If my goal is too lose fat, then I eat between 2000-2500 cals/day. My strength holds steady and I lose fat. To really gain strength and muscle fullness, I eat between 3000-3500 cals/day. This keeps the muscles full and tight without adding very much fat. If I ate 1500 cals/day, I would lose strength and muscle quickly. If I start eating over 3500 cals/day, I tend to bloat up.

In my experience, the only way I see a noticeable increase in muscle size and fullness is when I am using heavier weights in good form. This is not exact, but when I increase my compound exercises by 25-50lbs, I see a solid 3-5lbs of muscle. Whether this is increased fluid in the muscles or actually solid muscle tissue, I can't say, but I have always found an increase in strength pretty much parallels an increase in size.


Hello Coach,

I remember Dr. D writing about the 30-30-30. I believe it's 30 neg, 30 positive - 30 negative. (30 seconds).

I hope your health is OK and good luck with your surgery!

Best regards,

Ron


Thanks Ron,
I will take a week or so off training after my surgery, then 1 or 2 break-in workouts, then hopefully I should be good to go.
Is that a 30sec negative, followed by a 30sec positive, then finish with a 30sec negative? That would be 1 1/2 reps?
Again, thanks for the reply Ron.
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Hitit

HEY FB,

Can't believe another surgery for you! Dang!

Yes I remember Darden's 30/30/30.

30 neg./30 pos./30 neg.

God Speed and a quick recovery!

Brian
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