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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Mentzer did cardio work to stay trim as do many others. I guess that's why he didn't win Olympia, ha ha.

You know what Scott, IMO that is EXACTLY why I believe he did not win..he cut way too much and lost TOO much muscle...

Some said he was in his greatest shape at that time...I do not agree.



==Scott==
I think he didn't win because frankly even at Mentzers best and Arnold at his worst Arnold still looked better than Mentzer.
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gerry-hitman

entsminger wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Mentzer did cardio work to stay trim as do many others. I guess that's why he didn't win Olympia, ha ha.

You know what Scott, IMO that is EXACTLY why I believe he did not win..he cut way too much and lost TOO much muscle...

Some said he was in his greatest shape at that time...I do not agree.



==Scott==
I think he didn't win because frankly even at Mentzers best and Arnold at his worst Arnold still looked better than Mentzer.


I do not agree with you Scott...If Mentzer was at his best (which he was not IMO) he would have looked MUCH better than Arnold.

I had read that he lost the previous Olympia due to (many believed) to high of fat% levels.

In the next contest he seemed to over-compensate, focusing too much on cardio type activities and very low calorie dieting sometimes as low as 600 calories in a day...this combined with way to much running and such COST him muscle size loss, his face was very drawn in that contest along with smaller looking muscles...lean but smaller...Arnold on the other hand was not in top condition, and not as lean as Mike but had the muscle fullness advantage...Again my observations.

But too much cardio can take a shit-kickin to your muscle growth results Scott, which would explain why you have not made much progress.
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marcrph

Spain

entsminger wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Mentzer did cardio work to stay trim as do many others. I guess that's why he didn't win Olympia, ha ha.

You know what Scott, IMO that is EXACTLY why I believe he did not win..he cut way too much and lost TOO much muscle...

Some said he was in his greatest shape at that time...I do not agree.



==Scott==
I think he didn't win because frankly even at Mentzers best and Arnold at his worst Arnold still looked better than Mentzer.


I have the tape, and, IMO, Frank Zane should have won.
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marcrph

Spain

"There is no drug in current or prospective use that holds as much promise for sustained health as a lifetime program of physical exercise." states Dr. Walter Bortz II.

Physical activity can reduce anxiety and may even prevent depression. The fact is, many who are slim suffer from mental and emotional stress, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, and other conditions that are aggravated by a lack of enough exercise. I for one, experience elevated feelings from short sessions of high intensity alactic weight lifting, and conditioning bouts with kettlebells.

It is true that daily physical activity can have a positive impact on your health, according to the latest medical advice, perhaps more is better. This can be achieved by engaging in several brief sessions spread throughout the day.

The bottom line is that your body is designed to move around and engage in regular physical activity. A sedentary life-style is harmful to your health. And there is no vitamin, medicine, food, or surgical procedure that can replace your need to remain active.


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entsminger

Virginia, USA

gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Mentzer did cardio work to stay trim as do many others. I guess that's why he didn't win Olympia, ha ha.

You know what Scott, IMO that is EXACTLY why I believe he did not win..he cut way too much and lost TOO much muscle...

Some said he was in his greatest shape at that time...I do not agree.



==Scott==
I think he didn't win because frankly even at Mentzers best and Arnold at his worst Arnold still looked better than Mentzer.

I do not agree with you Scott...If Mentzer was at his best (which he was not IMO) he would have looked MUCH better than Arnold.

I had read that he lost the previous Olympia due to (many believed) to high of fat% levels.

In the next contest he seemed to over-compensate, focusing too much on cardio type activities and very low calorie dieting sometimes as low as 600 calories in a day...this combined with way to much running and such COST him muscle size loss, his face was very drawn in that contest along with smaller looking muscles...lean but smaller...Arnold on the other hand was not in top condition, and not as lean as Mike but had the muscle fullness advantage...Again my observations.

But too much cardio can take a shit-kickin to your muscle growth results Scott, which would explain why you have not made much progress.


===Scott==
Yes, too much might inhibit growth to some extent but what is too much for one person might be not enough for another. When one is out of shape and basically a couch potato and trying to lift weights to gain muscle an addition of to much cardio could mess with muscle growth but the better one gets into shape the better their body can handle extra cardio work and still grow.Right now I really don't get much cardio work, maybe once a week if I'm lucky. I'm not making progress now because of other stress factors in my life.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

marcrph wrote:
"There is no drug in current or prospective use that holds as much promise for sustained health as a lifetime program of physical exercise." states Dr. Walter Bortz II.

Physical activity can reduce anxiety and may even prevent depression. The fact is, many who are slim suffer from mental and emotional stress, cardiovascular diseases, diabetes, and other conditions that are aggravated by a lack of enough exercise. I for one, experience elevated feelings from short sessions of high intensity alactic weight lifting, and conditioning bouts with kettlebells.

It is true that daily physical activity can have a positive impact on your health, according to the latest medical advice, perhaps more is better. This can be achieved by engaging in several brief sessions spread throughout the day.

The bottom line is that your body is designed to move around and engage in regular physical activity. A sedentary life-style is harmful to your health. And there is no vitamin, medicine, food, or surgical procedure that can replace your need to remain active.




==Scott==
I agree!!
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marcrph

Spain

Ellington Darden
07/18/05
02:19 AM


Unrealistic or not, I've seem many people lose large amounts of fat quickly. And yes, David Hudlow was close to the top of the list -- he in fact did eliminate an average of more than 2,500 calories each day from his system.

I've tried to explain how this happened in several of my books, under the chapter heading of "Synergy."

When you combine a reduced-calorie diet, superhydration, HIT, walking lightly after evening meals, extra sleep, avoidance of stress, and many little things that deal with thermodynamics -- then the body gives up the fat stores quickly. And once you get into this fat-loss mode, the overall lose is simply amazing. It's more than 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. It's 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 or 6. Synergy is just about the only word that describes it.

Ellington
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southbeach

marcrph wrote:
Clarence Bass uses 1 hard aerobic session done weekly combined with other days of moderate walking, plus the addition of minimal weight training sets.

Comments?


Does he give a rationale for this...only 1 hard aerobic session per week?

I do it the other way around..5 or 6 hard aerobic sessions per week, and 1 or 2 hard resistance training sessions in same time frame.

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davise

Go here and read about him SB.

www.cbass.com/

I don't agree with everything he says, but overall I like his message.

Here is the barbell aerobics article I think marcph was referencing.

www.cbass.com/success_stories12.htm

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marcrph

Spain

southbeach wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Clarence Bass uses 1 hard aerobic session done weekly combined with other days of moderate walking, plus the addition of minimal weight training sets.

Comments?

Does he give a rationale for this...only 1 hard aerobic session per week?

I do it the other way around..5 or 6 hard aerobic sessions per week, and 1 or 2 hard resistance training sessions in same time frame.



A once-a-week hard aerobic session is enough to improve. And, 5-7 days of "comfortable" walking, or evening walking, which is much the same as what Dr. Darden prescribes is sufficient.

See, Dr. Darden concentrates on the positives of fitness, such as evening walks, whereas, many HITers concentrate on negatives, don't do this.....don't do that.....all you need is a "BIG-5," very negative viewpoint of fitness.

If anybody thinks a "BIG-3 routine gets you in cardiovascular condition......then....you have been deceived by false reasoning.
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gerry-hitman

marcrph wrote:
Ellington Darden
07/18/05
02:19 AM


Unrealistic or not, I've seem many people lose large amounts of fat quickly. And yes, David Hudlow was close to the top of the list -- he in fact did eliminate an average of more than 2,500 calories each day from his system.

I've tried to explain how this happened in several of my books, under the chapter heading of "Synergy."

When you combine a reduced-calorie diet, superhydration, HIT, walking lightly after evening meals, extra sleep, avoidance of stress, and many little things that deal with thermodynamics -- then the body gives up the fat stores quickly. And once you get into this fat-loss mode, the overall lose is simply amazing. It's more than 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. It's 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 or 6. Synergy is just about the only word that describes it.

Ellington


Funny you post this quote of Dr. Darden's. It does NOTHING to improve your argument and in fact, works against it.

Taking evening walks, or walking in general which we all MUST do anyway, is in no way the aerobics you are promoting here.

What you have done here is quote DR. D out of context.

Shame on you.
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gerry-hitman

marcrph wrote:


If anybody thinks a "BIG-3 routine gets you in cardiovascular condition......then....you have been deceived by false reasoning.


First of all this is NOT a "fitness" site, its a strength and muscle growth site.

Second this site does not exist to promote the "big 3".

Your way off...go away.

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marcrph

Spain

Do your KB swings on the beach.

Can you take REN-EX to the beach?

http://www.T-Nation.com/...metabolic_swing
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fbcoach

marcrph wrote:
Ellington Darden
07/18/05
02:19 AM


Unrealistic or not, I've seem many people lose large amounts of fat quickly. And yes, David Hudlow was close to the top of the list -- he in fact did eliminate an average of more than 2,500 calories each day from his system.

I've tried to explain how this happened in several of my books, under the chapter heading of "Synergy."

When you combine a reduced-calorie diet, superhydration, HIT, walking lightly after evening meals, extra sleep, avoidance of stress, and many little things that deal with thermodynamics -- then the body gives up the fat stores quickly. And once you get into this fat-loss mode, the overall lose is simply amazing. It's more than 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. It's 1 + 1 + 1 = 5 or 6. Synergy is just about the only word that describes it.

Ellington


In my opinion, this is a very remarkable statement. I say this because it is based on stress physiology, as I am sure Dr Darden already knows. Giving up fat stores is as much about stres management, as it is about energy input/output. It's about synergy. Again, GREAT POST!
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marcrph

Spain

fbcoach wrote:
In my opinion, this is a very remarkable statement. I say this because it is based on stress physiology, as I am sure Dr Darden already knows. Giving up fat stores is as much about stres management, as it is about energy input/output. It's about synergy. Again, GREAT POST!


And I added or subtracted nothing from his unedited comment. Which means......the comment was not taken out of context.
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Turpin

gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Mentzer did cardio work to stay trim as do many others. I guess that's why he didn't win Olympia, ha ha.

You know what Scott, IMO that is EXACTLY why I believe he did not win..he cut way too much and lost TOO much muscle...

Some said he was in his greatest shape at that time...I do not agree.



==Scott==
I think he didn't win because frankly even at Mentzers best and Arnold at his worst Arnold still looked better than Mentzer.

I do not agree with you Scott...If Mentzer was at his best (which he was not IMO) he would have looked MUCH better than Arnold.

I had read that he lost the previous Olympia due to (many believed) to high of fat% levels.

In the next contest he seemed to over-compensate, focusing too much on cardio type activities and very low calorie dieting sometimes as low as 600 calories in a day...this combined with way to much running and such COST him muscle size loss, his face was very drawn in that contest along with smaller looking muscles...lean but smaller...Arnold on the other hand was not in top condition, and not as lean as Mike but had the muscle fullness advantage...Again my observations.



Gerry I would agree , Mentzer tried too hard to come in `ripped` in order to beat Zane , who he lost to in 79` after Mentzer miscalculated his sodium intake after pre-judging where it was felt he was superior.

In my opinion Mentzer in 80` ( see pic above ... altho there are others that depict him better ) was very drawn looking and had lost a lot of the muscle for which he was revered.

T.



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Turpin

Mentzer as `full` as I like to see him.

T.
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sgb2112

Do not have it, but my favorit picture of Mentzer is in one of John Little's books, in which Mike was in his early teens and huge already. The caption mentions Mike was moving huge weights very young..500lb squats etc.
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marcrph

Spain

Turpin wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Mentzer did cardio work to stay trim as do many others. I guess that's why he didn't win Olympia, ha ha.

You know what Scott, IMO that is EXACTLY why I believe he did not win..he cut way too much and lost TOO much muscle...

Some said he was in his greatest shape at that time...I do not agree.



==Scott==
I think he didn't win because frankly even at Mentzers best and Arnold at his worst Arnold still looked better than Mentzer.

I do not agree with you Scott...If Mentzer was at his best (which he was not IMO) he would have looked MUCH better than Arnold.

I had read that he lost the previous Olympia due to (many believed) to high of fat% levels.

In the next contest he seemed to over-compensate, focusing too much on cardio type activities and very low calorie dieting sometimes as low as 600 calories in a day...this combined with way to much running and such COST him muscle size loss, his face was very drawn in that contest along with smaller looking muscles...lean but smaller...Arnold on the other hand was not in top condition, and not as lean as Mike but had the muscle fullness advantage...Again my observations.



Gerry I would agree , Mentzer tried too hard to come in `ripped` in order to beat Zane , who he lost to in 79` after Mentzer miscalculated his sodium intake after pre-judging where it was felt he was superior.

In my opinion Mentzer in 80` ( see pic above ... altho there are others that depict him better ) was very drawn looking and had lost a lot of the muscle for which he was revered.

T.





I bought the 1980 Mr. Olympia video tape. The tape mentioned Mike Mentzer's V-taper. I kept waiting for this "taper" to show in the video. It was not any more evident than any other competitor.

I don't feel he was in his best shape.
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Turpin

My favourite Mentzer pic.

T.
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Turpin

Marcph wrote; I bought the 1980 Mr. Olympia video tape. The tape mentioned Mike Mentzer's V-taper. I kept waiting for this "taper" to show in the video.

....................................

Turpin writes; He was tapered and sharp though Marc , but definitely down in size.

T.
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gerry-hitman

Turpin wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
gerry-hitman wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Mentzer did cardio work to stay trim as do many others. I guess that's why he didn't win Olympia, ha ha.

You know what Scott, IMO that is EXACTLY why I believe he did not win..he cut way too much and lost TOO much muscle...

Some said he was in his greatest shape at that time...I do not agree.



==Scott==
I think he didn't win because frankly even at Mentzers best and Arnold at his worst Arnold still looked better than Mentzer.

I do not agree with you Scott...If Mentzer was at his best (which he was not IMO) he would have looked MUCH better than Arnold.

I had read that he lost the previous Olympia due to (many believed) to high of fat% levels.

In the next contest he seemed to over-compensate, focusing too much on cardio type activities and very low calorie dieting sometimes as low as 600 calories in a day...this combined with way to much running and such COST him muscle size loss, his face was very drawn in that contest along with smaller looking muscles...lean but smaller...Arnold on the other hand was not in top condition, and not as lean as Mike but had the muscle fullness advantage...Again my observations.



Gerry I would agree , Mentzer tried too hard to come in `ripped` in order to beat Zane , who he lost to in 79` after Mentzer miscalculated his sodium intake after pre-judging where it was felt he was superior.

In my opinion Mentzer in 80` ( see pic above ... altho there are others that depict him better ) was very drawn looking and had lost a lot of the muscle for which he was revered.

T.



Absolutely T.

Thanks for posting those pics which CLEARLY shows he DID in fact lose allot of muscle...thanks to....you guessed it, the very same SHIT being promoted in this thread....



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marcrph

Spain

Turpin wrote:
Turpin writes; He was tapered and sharp though Marc , but definitely down in size.

T.


But not super tapered like Sergio was at one time.

The video would have led you to believe he would have a spectacular taper.....alas...he was not as tapered as Zane IMO, and others that were competing including Arnold. Posing.....nothing special either. I would have given the trophy to Zane.
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marcrph

Spain

This is spectacular taper.

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DownUnderLifter

sgb2112 wrote:
The caption mentions Mike was moving huge weights very young..500lb squats etc.

Talking about young guys squatting huge weights - I remember reading an old interview with British bodybuilder Ian Harrison and he said that he was squatting 600lb when he was 17 years old.
Not long after that he shattered both his knees and started implementing pre-exhausted triple drop sets to build size.

DUL
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