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Is Bodybuilding A Sport?!?
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Drew Baye was telling me in Landau F.B. thread that Bodybuilding "is not a Sport, it is a Pageant". Now Drew and I have had our debates over the years but I was a bit surprised. I have heard plenty of snide remarks about B.B.ing over the years because the drug realm has messed things up so much but...

Then again we don't see bodybuilding in the Olympics and there is plenty of drugs there...are they just trying to keep all that drug use under cover? I'd say yes, when you consider some of the events are motocross bikes...

Anyway Drew is a RenX guy and they are all about intellect, words, definitions etc...so it astounds me that after all these years of HIT a fellow like Drew would seem so confused.

Just consider the Oxford definitions in the following post. It is obvious even to a grade schooler that bodybuilding is a sport not a pageant BY DEFINITION. What is it that makes supposedly logical fellows cast aside the most basic axioms? A thing is what it is and is differentiated by definition first then particulars after.

I want to hear your opinions! What the heck is it that people can't see natural bodybuilding as the sporting example of fitness which it so clearly is?!?

Regards,
Andrew

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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

sport Pronunciation: /spɔːt/

Definition of sport

noun

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment:

team sports such as soccer and rugby
[mass noun]:
I used to play a lot of sport
(as modifier sports)
a sports centre
(sports) British an occasion on which people compete in various athletic activities:
I won the 200 metres in the school sports
[mass noun, usually with adjective] success or pleasure derived from an activity such as hunting or fishing:
I have heard there is good sport to be had in Buttermere
[mass noun] dated entertainment; fun:
it was considered great sport to catch him out
archaic a source of amusement or entertainment:
I do not wish to show myself the sport of a man like Wildeve

2. informal a person who behaves in a good or specified way in response to teasing, defeat, or a similarly trying situation: go on, be a sport! Angela?s a bad sport
chiefly Australian/NZ used as a friendly form of address, especially between men who do not know each other: hold on, sport!

3. Biology an animal or plant showing abnormal or striking variation from the parent type, especially in form or colour, as a result of spontaneous mutation.

verb
1 [with object] wear or display (a distinctive item):
he was sporting a huge handlebar moustache
2 [no object] play in a lively, energetic way:
the children sported in the water

Phrases

in sport
for fun:
I have assumed the name was given more or less in sport
make sport of
dated make fun of:
the owls made sport of us?they called from all directions
the sport of kings
horse racing.
Derivatives

sporter
noun

Origin:
late Middle English (in the sense 'pastime, entertainment'): shortening of disport
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Definition of pageant

noun

1. a public entertainment consisting of a procession of people in elaborate, colourful costumes, or an outdoor performance of a historical scene: they brought the history books to life at the town?s pageant figurative the pageant of public life something regarded as a series of interesting and varied events: it?s all part of life?s rich pageant historical a scene erected on a fixed stage or moving vehicle as a public show.

2. (also beauty pageant)
North American a beauty contest.

Origin:
late Middle English pagyn, of unknown origin
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southbeach

Absolutely it is a sport! And a worthy one at that.

When was last time you were onstage and asked..

who is your hero/inspiration and why?

where do you see yourself 10 years from now?

describe yourself in 3 words.

what is the biggest problem facing america's youth today?

That's what they ask at "Pageants"!


Bodybuilding is about optimum development of EVERY muscle in the body with an eye on maintaining symmetry.

That is an extremely hard endeavor involving many many different facets that must come in to play and i have nothing but respect for accomplished bodybuilders!

YES, it's is a sport! One of the best!


ps for christ sake i just witnessed Olympic badminton ..oh the horror. Now THATS not a sport!
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fbcoach

It really is up to how each individual perceives it. I was a competitive Bodybuilder in the past, winning several local titles, a State Title, culminating in a National Qualifier for the AAU Mr. America (this was during the time the NPC was just beginning).

I actually began Weight Training for Sports/Athletics at a very young age, then to Competition Bodybuilding. While competing, I felt like it was a sport, because it had a competitive nature. At the same time, I was still involved in playing Football and Coaching.

It's hard to distinguish or separate Weight Training/bodybuilding and Sport/Athletics, because Weight Training/bodybuilding is part of most Athletes training for their sport. The training for Bodybuilding is objective, but the competition is subjective, and you're not really performing, other than a formalized posing/dancing routine, along with mandatory poses.

With that said, unless you have actually competed in a Bodybuilding Competition, an individual couldn't have any idea what an ordeal the competitive Bodybuilder goes thru. It is a test or challenge of physical capabilities, as well as mental/emotional strength. I guess what I am saying is what I stated at the beginning....Bodybuilding as a sport is in the opinion of the individual.

Maybe if there were more clearly identified judging criteria, it would fare better, but there are many tangible and intangibles that are so subjective.
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southbeach

fbcoach wrote:
It really is up to how each individual perceives it. I was a competitive Bodybuilder in the past, winning several local titles, a State Title, culminating in a National Qualifier for the AAU Mr. America (this was during the time the NPC was just beginning).

I actually began Weight Training for Sports/Athletics at a very young age, then to Competition Bodybuilding. While competing, I felt like it was a sport, because it had a competitive nature. At the same time, I was still involved in playing Football and Coaching.

It's hard to distinguish or separate Weight Training/bodybuilding and Sport/Athletics, because Weight Training/bodybuilding is part of most Athletes training for their sport. The training for Bodybuilding is objective, but the competition is subjective, and you're not really performing, other than a formalized posing/dancing routine, along with mandatory poses.

With that said, unless you have actually competed in a Bodybuilding Competition, an individual couldn't have any idea what an ordeal the competitive Bodybuilder goes thru. It is a test or challenge of physical capabilities, as well as mental/emotional strength. I guess what I am saying is what I stated at the beginning....Bodybuilding as a sport is in the opinion of the individual.

Maybe if there were more clearly identified judging criteria, it would fare better, but there are many tangible and intangibles that are so subjective.


Look to the Olympic gymnastics for subjective judging.

I think there is room for someone to develop a software scanner that places redlines all over the contestants muscles like barcode scanning a ribroast in a grocery store. Now that's objective!

of course I am kidding ;)
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

The issue is all sports have tons of subjectivity and rely heavily on genetics and whether or not the individuals are 'clean'.

You may like or dislike a sport but a sport is what the defintion says. In boxing the judging is often way to subjective but its still a sport...right?

Regards,
Andrew
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FiremanBob

Any "sport" that is judged, rather than objectively scored, measured, timed or weighed, isn't a real sport to me.

Nor are BB and gymnastics merely a pageant. This is not a binary distinction but a spectrum.
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

FiremanBob wrote:
Any "sport" that is judged, rather than objectively scored, measured, timed or weighed, isn't a real sport to me.

Nor are BB and gymnastics merely a pageant. This is not a binary distinction but a spectrum.


Thats splitting hairs, the ref work can and often is subjective which makes scores...subjective.

There is no real or fake sports there are things that meet the defintiion or not.

Regards,
Andrew
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jn6047

AShortt wrote:
FiremanBob wrote:
Any "sport" that is judged, rather than objectively scored, measured, timed or weighed, isn't a real sport to me.

Nor are BB and gymnastics merely a pageant. This is not a binary distinction but a spectrum.

Thats splitting hairs, the ref work can and often is subjective which makes scores...subjective.

There is no real or fake sports there are things that meet the defintiion or not.

Regards,
Andrew


I thought you wrote that you wanted to hear opinions?

jn6047
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
Don't get me wrong as I love bodybuilding but I don't see bodybuilding as a sport but more of a exhibition or beauty pageant like where girls walk the cat walk showing off new fashion designs.A sport to me is an activity where people do some kind of physical competitive activity.Walking around and flexing on stage is not a competitive activity in my opinion.It may have taken alot of work to get there but in the end it's just a fashion show except muscles are on display.

Of course not be labeled a sport doesn't take anything away from bodybuilding. Now days where you have a "sport" with grown people shoving a object across some ice and participants running along with brooms ( curling) sweeping the path way clear, the term sport means less than it used to.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

We are all subject to definitions... it's part of a branch of philosophy... Epistemology. If we avoid definitions, or try to re-create them (rather than establish new concepts), then we are being irrational.
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Tomislav

New York, USA

AShortt wrote:
FiremanBob wrote:
Any "sport" that is judged, rather than objectively scored, measured, timed or weighed, isn't a real sport to me.

Nor are BB and gymnastics merely a pageant. This is not a binary distinction but a spectrum.

Thats splitting hairs, the ref work can and often is subjective which makes scores...subjective.

There is no real or fake sports there are things that meet the defintiion or not.

Regards,
Andrew


Andrew,
I agree with you but see a problem with the initial comparison; they are both sports - both meet the definition.
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NewYorker

New York, USA

13 of 6000 Olympic athletes (0.2%) tested were caught using drugs, and the penalties have sharp teeth. Marion Jones spent two years in jail.

Half of all Olympic athletes are tested as are all medal winners.

The ever evolving Olympics drug testing includes tests for 240 substances.

Professional bodybuilding? It is what it is and drugs are a cornerstone. I'd be surprised if any successful professional bodybuilder is not heavily involved in drugs.

Sad to say, professional body building is not a sport. The outcome is predetermined and the events controlled by sponsors who make false claims. How is that "sporting"? Rigged and deceitful is more accurate.

I will concede that it involves athleticism, talent, dedication, mental toughness, sacrifice and highly developed aesthetics.
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fbcoach

AShortt wrote:
The issue is all sports have tons of subjectivity and rely heavily on genetics and whether or not the individuals are 'clean'.

You may like or dislike a sport but a sport is what the defintion says. In boxing the judging is often way to subjective but its still a sport...right?

Regards,
Andrew


You asked for opinions, just like your opinion. By the way, your opinion on Boxing is wrong, in my opinion. Boxing has an objective, definitive way of winning. You win by KO or by scoring points by landing diffent strikes, controlling the ring/fight, aggression, and also causing damage. Although there is always subjective calls by refs and officials and especially fans, there is definitive objectives. Literally everything in Competition Bodybuilding is subjective. There is no definitive goals for muscle size, muscularity, symmetry, definition, etc. It's like beauty....it's in the eyes of the beholder.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

There are objectives... upper balanced with lower... no body part developed any more than another... right side balanced with left side, degree of muscle complimented with degree of separation and definition. These things are obvious to the eye (and based on geometric principles, which I wrote about in the book Z3)... but how a person is 'put together' and what a judge likes in that regard is subjective, and which can alter placements.
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Brian Johnston wrote:
We are all subject to definitions... it's part of a branch of philosophy... Epistemology. If we avoid definitions, or try to re-create them (rather than establish new concepts), then we are being irrational.


Exactly

Regards,
Andrew
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

NewYorker wrote:
13 of 6000 Olympic athletes (0.2%) tested were caught using drugs, and the penalties have sharp teeth. Marion Jones spent two years in jail.

Half of all Olympic athletes are tested as are all medal winners.
'
The ever evolving Olympics drug testing includes tests for 240 substances.

Professional bodybuilding? It is what it is and drugs are a cornerstone. I'd be surprised if any successful professional bodybuilder is not heavily involved in drugs.

Sad to say, professional body building is not a sport. The outcome is predetermined and the events controlled by sponsors who make false claims. How is that "sporting"? Rigged and deceitful is more accurate.

I will concede that it involves athleticism, talent, dedication, mental toughness, sacrifice and highly developed aesthetics.


You cannot find compounds that you don't know the molecular structure of, this is how all these Olympians are staying 'ahead' of the testing.

Regards,
Andrew
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

fbcoach wrote:

You asked for opinions, just like your opinion. By the way, your opinion on Boxing is wrong, in my opinion. Boxing has an objective, definitive way of winning. You win by KO or by scoring points by landing diffent strikes, controlling the ring/fight, aggression, and also causing damage. Although there is always subjective calls by refs and officials and especially fans, there is definitive objectives. Literally everything in Competition Bodybuilding is subjective. There is no definitive goals for muscle size, muscularity, symmetry, definition, etc. It's like beauty....it's in the eyes of the beholder.


No there is mandatory comparison and the judging is just as skill/experienced based as boxing. Boxing is a point system based on the judges view and it is very subjective, there have been countless bad decisions...especially in the Olympics. Knock outs sure but what set them up? Sometimes it's just poor ref work.

Regards,
Andrew
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

NewYorker wrote:
.

Sad to say, professional body building is not a sport. The outcome is predetermined and the events controlled by sponsors who make false claims. How is that "sporting"? Rigged and deceitful is more accurate.

I will concede that it involves athleticism, talent, dedication, mental toughness, sacrifice and highly developed aesthetics.


Keep in mind I don't agree with anything but natural bodybuilding. The issue is you can call it a bad sport or pathetic sport...but it is a sport.

Regards,
Andrew
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Don't get me wrong as I love bodybuilding but I don't see bodybuilding as a sport but more of a exhibition or beauty pageant like where girls walk the cat walk showing off new fashion designs.A sport to me is an activity where people do some kind of physical competitive activity.Walking around and flexing on stage is not a competitive activity in my opinion.It may have taken alot of work to get there but in the end it's just a fashion show except muscles are on display.

Of course not be labeled a sport doesn't take anything away from bodybuilding. Now days where you have a "sport" with grown people shoving a object across some ice and participants running along with brooms ( curling) sweeping the path way clear, the term sport means less than it used to.


So we can just make up our own personal definitions for words?

Regards,
Andrew
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

The thing is I ask if it was a sport, not if it was a good or bad one.

What is a huge curiosity to me is how a fellow like Drew Baye can just ignore a definition so easily. I mean when we bantered about it a bit 'he' posted the definition which bodybuilding meets with ease.

Is this like how RenX redefines exercise? Are some folks like RenX word smiths...too close to the issue?

Fellows it is either a sport or not by definition this is how reality works, anything else is a twisting, watering down and bastardizing of fact and logic.

Regards,
Andrew
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Brian Johnston wrote:
There are objectives... upper balanced with lower... no body part developed any more than another... right side balanced with left side, degree of muscle complimented with degree of separation and definition. These things are obvious to the eye (and based on geometric principles, which I wrote about in the book Z3)... but how a person is 'put together' and what a judge likes in that regard is subjective, and which can alter placements.


Exactly

Regards,
Andrew
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fbcoach

Brian Johnston wrote:
There are objectives... upper balanced with lower... no body part developed any more than another... right side balanced with left side, degree of muscle complimented with degree of separation and definition. These things are obvious to the eye (and based on geometric principles, which I wrote about in the book Z3)... but how a person is 'put together' and what a judge likes in that regard is subjective, and which can alter placements.


I have yet to see a Judge take out a tape measure, protractor, or square. Since I haven't been to a Bodybuilding Competition in a while, they may do things differently now:) I agree though, Judging is subjective.

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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

Definitions qua definitions, even though man-made, cannot be arbitrary. They must be grounded in reality, derived from sense-perception. They must identify the essential characteristics of the units of the concept.

Based on the definition of sport, 'bodybuilding' certainly meets the criteria. Let's take it almost word by word:

"an activity (exercising or posing on stage) involving physical exertion(either in the gym or on stage flexing) and skill(ability to perform exercises or posing on stage properly) in which an individual(check) or team(competitors) compete(check) against another(check) or others(check) for entertainment(check, although this is not essential to the definition).

Webster's unabridged dictionary: "the act or practice of exercising, lifting weights, etc. so as to develop the muscles of the body"
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