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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Arthur on Training Athletes
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st3

I'd like to open some discussion on training athletes.

I know Arthur moved in this direction and I'd like to know more detail if anyone can give it.

There's so much out there with "explosive" type training. People use olympic lifts to build this "explosive power" as olympic lifters are "the most explosive people on the planet".

So let's discuss "explosive training" first.

Is it possible to train for more explosive power?

Here's where I stand after many years of training. Train HIT for strnegth and practice your sport for specifity.

I'm doing this for a website I'm putting togehter so any articles I could repost would be helpful.
Thanks
Steve
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.
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southbeach

I think you can train for "explosiveness" this just improving reaction time. For example a sprinter can train himself to get off the blocks a split second faster. But just slightly..reaction time (and sprint speed) is largely genetic. You can train yourself to react quicker to a stimulus but genetic limits will kick in just as quickly (imo)
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marcrph

Portugal

Steve,

This subject cannot be discussed peacefully or intellectually here or any other HIT site.

All you will get is flame wars.

I will try to save everyone the trouble.
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Tony Williams

Besides specificity training in athletes, Jones also discusses "explosive" type weight training:

http://www.arthurjonesexercise...
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NewYorker

New York, USA

entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.


Not by design
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Tony Williams

Scroll down to "Speed of Movement During Exercise":

http://www.asep.org/...files/Smith.pdf
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Dan Davidson

Connecticut, USA

st3 wrote:
I'd like to open some discussion on training athletes.

I know Arthur moved in this direction and I'd like to know more detail if anyone can give it.

There's so much out there with "explosive" type training. People use olympic lifts to build this "explosive power" as olympic lifters are "the most explosive people on the planet".

So let's discuss "explosive training" first.

Is it possible to train for more explosive power?

Here's where I stand after many years of training. Train HIT for strnegth and practice your sport for specifity.

I'm doing this for a website I'm putting togehter so any articles I could repost would be helpful.
Thanks
Steve


I haven't read it in a while but I believe in the book "Total Conditioning the Nautilus Way" by Peterson, it is addressed.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

NewYorker wrote:
entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.

Not by design


==Scott==
Maybe not by Jones design but by his own design and it sure worked for him!!
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southbeach

NewYorker wrote:
entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.

Not by design


What did you mean not by design? AJ could have slowed him down if he wanted to but he didn't. why?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

southbeach wrote:
NewYorker wrote:
entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.

Not by design

What did you mean not by design? AJ could have slowed him down if he wanted to but he didn't. why?


==Scott==
I'm guessing Viator knew best what worked for him regardless of Jones telling him to do otherwise and when Jones did see that his explosive reps worked he let it go on as he wanted Viator to be a big as possible to show off Nautilus.
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southbeach

entsminger wrote:
southbeach wrote:
NewYorker wrote:
entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.

Not by design

What did you mean not by design? AJ could have slowed him down if he wanted to but he didn't. why?


==Scott==
I'm guessing Viator knew best what worked for him regardless of Jones telling him to do otherwise and when Jones did see that his explosive reps worked he let it go on as he wanted Viator to be a big as possible to show off Nautilus.


nah knowing AJ i very much doubt that. More likely viator was close enough to a 2/4 cadence with his natural rhythm.
Has anyone actually taken a CADENCE COUNT? The PULLOVER has a huge travel ROM from start to completion. The 2/4 looks a lot faster on machines with great travel. :/
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

southbeach wrote:
entsminger wrote:
southbeach wrote:
NewYorker wrote:
entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.

Not by design

What did you mean not by design? AJ could have slowed him down if he wanted to but he didn't. why?


==Scott==
I'm guessing Viator knew best what worked for him regardless of Jones telling him to do otherwise and when Jones did see that his explosive reps worked he let it go on as he wanted Viator to be a big as possible to show off Nautilus.

nah knowing AJ i very much doubt that. More likely viator was close enough to a 2/4 cadence with his natural rhythm.
Has anyone actually taken a CADENCE COUNT? The PULLOVER has a huge travel ROM from start to completion. The 2/4 looks a lot faster on machines with great travel. :/


===Scott==
So you don't think Jones would step aside and let Viator use ballistic moves that would build him up even bigger so he could promote Nautilus even better.He let Sergio continue using steroids while he was training at Nautilus so Jones could use him to promote Nautilus.
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Dan Davidson

Connecticut, USA

entsminger wrote:
southbeach wrote:
entsminger wrote:
southbeach wrote:
NewYorker wrote:
entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.

Not by design

What did you mean not by design? AJ could have slowed him down if he wanted to but he didn't. why?


==Scott==
I'm guessing Viator knew best what worked for him regardless of Jones telling him to do otherwise and when Jones did see that his explosive reps worked he let it go on as he wanted Viator to be a big as possible to show off Nautilus.

nah knowing AJ i very much doubt that. More likely viator was close enough to a 2/4 cadence with his natural rhythm.
Has anyone actually taken a CADENCE COUNT? The PULLOVER has a huge travel ROM from start to completion. The 2/4 looks a lot faster on machines with great travel. :/

===Scott==
So you don't think Jones would step aside and let Viator use ballistic moves that would build him up even bigger so he could promote Nautilus even better.He let Sergio continue using steroids while he was training at Nautilus so Jones could use him to promote Nautilus.


Surprised to see you putting Arthur in the "huckster" category. Anyways Scott, what makes you think using ballistic speeds on Nautilus equipment would build someone bigger? That's like saying moving super slowly could make someone bigger and we all know it doesn't.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Dan Davidson wrote:
entsminger wrote:
southbeach wrote:
entsminger wrote:
southbeach wrote:
NewYorker wrote:
entsminger wrote:
===Scott==
Viator trained pretty explosively.

Not by design

What did you mean not by design? AJ could have slowed him down if he wanted to but he didn't. why?


==Scott==
I'm guessing Viator knew best what worked for him regardless of Jones telling him to do otherwise and when Jones did see that his explosive reps worked he let it go on as he wanted Viator to be a big as possible to show off Nautilus.

nah knowing AJ i very much doubt that. More likely viator was close enough to a 2/4 cadence with his natural rhythm.
Has anyone actually taken a CADENCE COUNT? The PULLOVER has a huge travel ROM from start to completion. The 2/4 looks a lot faster on machines with great travel. :/

===Scott==
So you don't think Jones would step aside and let Viator use ballistic moves that would build him up even bigger so he could promote Nautilus even better.He let Sergio continue using steroids while he was training at Nautilus so Jones could use him to promote Nautilus.

Surprised to see you putting Arthur in the "huckster" category. Anyways Scott, what makes you think using ballistic speeds on Nautilus equipment would build someone bigger? That's like saying moving super slowly could make someone bigger and we all know it doesn't.


===Scott==
Come on Dan, we all know Arthur wasn't perfect and he would do what he could to promote his machines. Obviously Viator thought the fast ballistic moves benefited him else he wouldn't have done them. Frankly I did find fast ballistic curls built more size than steady regular paced reps but the chance for injury multiplied by 3 so I stopped them.
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southbeach

Scott, you never even met AJ just shut up
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

southbeach wrote:
Scott, you never even met AJ just shut up


==Scott==

Oh, I struck a nerve here! Don't say anything against the grand exaulted mystic ruler!! So you think you have to actually have met and talked with Jones to have an opinion on him?? Your so called 30 second wine tasting meeting ( which you've even admitted he wasn't even there) makes you the authority on him?All the volumes of his writings mean nothing?? You shut the hell up !!
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southbeach

entsminger wrote:
southbeach wrote:
Scott, you never even met AJ just shut up

==Scott==

Oh, I struck a nerve here! Don't say anything against the grand exaulted mystic ruler!! So you think you have to actually have met and talked with Jones to have an opinion on him?? Your so called 30 second wine tasting meeting ( which you've even admitted he wasn't even there) makes you the authority on him?All the volumes of his writings mean nothing?? You shut the hell up !!


grand exaulted mystic ruler??

wow your respect for AJ shines thru here.

what's you opinion about Dr Darden, who styled himself after AJ?

Don't be shy
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Dan Davidson

Connecticut, USA

entsminger wrote:
Surprised to see you putting Arthur in the "huckster" category. Anyways Scott, what makes you think using ballistic speeds on Nautilus equipment would build someone bigger? That's like saying moving super slowly could make someone bigger and we all know it doesn't.

===Scott==
Come on Dan, we all know Arthur wasn't perfect and he would do what he could to promote his machines. Obviously Viator thought the fast ballistic moves benefited him else he wouldn't have done them. Frankly I did find fast ballistic curls built more size than steady regular paced reps but the chance for injury multiplied by 3 so I stopped them.


Scott, I'm not trying to say Arthur was perfect but since now we know what your opinion of Arthur is, why don't you give an example of his being disingenuous to sell Nautilus. I didn't think he needed to be and still don't.
Also what in your opinion is moving ballistically on a Nautilus machine? Southbeach is right about the Pullover having a huge range of motion. Arthur stated 2/4 was a guideline for speed of movement. ROM will have everything to do with how "fast or slow" movement looks to the eye.
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Turpin

Cadence is ( and should only be ) relevant to the effort exerted.

ie; a high intensity of effort requires a high load that in itself cannot be moved at a ballistic pace ( despite the intent to do so ).

Any effort that one can `count` and perfect a cadence is not/cannot be deemed high intensity of effort , and as a consequence a high intensity of effort cannot be highly repetitious in its performance.

T.
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southbeach

Turpin wrote:
Cadence is ( and should only be ) relevant to the effort exerted.

ie; a high intensity of effort requires a high load that in itself cannot be moved at a ballistic pace ( despite the intent to do so ).

Any effort that one can `count` and perfect a cadence is not/cannot be deemed high intensity of effort , and as a consequence a high intensity of effort cannot be highly repetitious in its performance.

T.


Complete BS unless your doing singles.

Any weight less than singles I can control the cadence. even a 2 rep set i can slow down the first rep.

dude you need to get a clue
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db144

SB:

Eat some meat and stop whining like a cunt.

d
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southbeach

db144 wrote:
SB:

Eat some meat and stop whining like a cunt.

d



just shut your kung pie hole
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Landau

Florida, USA

Yes: Total Fitness - The Nautilus Way has several of Arthur's Original Athletic Journal Articles which are indeed brilliant!
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st3

Yes it is Total Conditioning by Peterson. I have it and read it. Great stuff.

Let's take it in this direction.

If your training an athlete, lets say a combat athlete, (wrestler, mma, jiu jitsu) how would you train them?

Would you train them like AJ did?

Personally I've trained a lot of athletes. IMHO, old school HIT training is the best.

I don't say that without having tried all kinds of other protocols.

I train for metabolic conditioning and do no card whatsoever. I only train my sport for card, nothing more specific than that. All else takes away from valuable time training specifically.
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