MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle


Bob Marchesello
Lost 23.55 lbs fat
Built 8.55 lbs muscle


Jeff Turner
Lost 25.5 lbs fat


Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
Built 3 lbs muscle


Ted Tucker
Lost 41 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle

 
 

Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


ARCHIVES >>

"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

Mission Statement

H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy

Privacy Policy

Credits

LOG IN FORUM MAIN REGISTER SEARCH
Main Line X-Force WOW
First | Prev | 1 | 2 | 3
Author
Rating
Options

Mr. Strong

Hitit wrote:
14 or 10 exercises seems like allot! Why so much?

You are getting allot of crossover, yes?

I thought with especially these machines doing less was more productive due to the deeper fatigue?

Even 10 movements using non-X-FOrce machines is really pushing it IMO. Unless you're a beginner (maybe you consider a beginner with X-FOrce finding your weight/rep nitch on these) or MAYBE if you are a 25 year old or on enhancements.

What are your thoughts?





Its not really a lot, just seems a lot from your perspective.

HIT workouts used to be longer than 6 sets, multi sets on some exercises as well, workouts can be longer than 15 minutes.

Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Unfortunately I had to cancel this week's visit to Main Line, so I did the following in my studio in Cranbury. Some exercises I did to complement the X-Force, some to approximate.

Nitro Vertical Chest, 200x5, between 30 and 60 seconds.
Nitro Hip Abductor.
Nitro Hip Adductor.
Chins on the Greg Anderson assisted machine as per Dr. Darden "30-30-30"/n-p-n. 20#.
Dard.
Lying rear delt.
Lying external rotation.
Curls on Freedom Trainer, X-Force position.
Triceps on FT, modified X-Force position.
Decline Crunch.
Reverse Incline Crunch.

Video at http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=FQi3vPPWsK8
The difference in weight stack is most notable in the Vertical Chest. The negative felt way too easy, positive too hard, to where I "failed" due to ache right in the front shoulders. If Jeff were to test the friction in this piece, I'm sure it would be outrageous.
Hip Abd and Add: I have a new respect for these two. The Abd is the only piece that isolates glutes without complications. I make a point of locking the feet into the rungs and using glutes and hams to raise myself slightly from the seat; or more precisely, to avoid dragging my hamstrings and sitting on the muscles I'm trying to work. I also try to lock down the abs to prevent the pelvis from tipping as fatigue sets in. The whole beauty of the movement is to work the glutes without tweaking the lumbar, so if you rely on the seat belt and your lumbar flops as fatigue sets in, you defeat the purpose. You may get more reps that way, but I prefer locking in until the movement stalls so the lumbar isn't an issue at all.
The Hip Adductor seems to help with preventing strains during the guard in jiu jitsu.
Chins, Dr. Darden style. 20 pound assist, 30 seconds negative, 30 positive, 30 negative. The first :30 is like a warm up. The middle 30, I was starting to think bad things about Dr. Darden. The last 30, I stopped thinking those bad things, because I could only concentrate on not falling. Very dramatic effect to doing chins that way.
Dard, for the tibialis. My feet and ankles are a mess structurally. Any muscular support hopefully helps.
Lying rear delt and external rotation. I find my shoulders tend to round forward with chest and lat exercises only, so I include these to try to counter. The dumbbells and body position provide enough cam, although it's a bit awkward.
Curls on the FT, X-Force position. I usually had done incline curls with dumbbells, for all the reasons I put in the Moment Arm Exercise Biceps video. I used the Freedom Trainer to minimize the zero moment arm at the bottom, and made a point of keeping my arms in contact with the bench, to avoid lifting the elbows and another zero moment arm. I'd say a small improvement over db inclines. I may try the old "akinetic" style next, alternating, with the weight stack suspended.
Triceps on the FT. Not quite the XF position, in that I'm leaning back instead of forward. I haven't quite mastered the XF version, possibly because the ruptured triceps (not the one you see in the video) makes it tough to hold the position. Leaning back like this seemed to help, although obviously without the extra negative.
Decline crunch and reverse incline crunch. In the dc, I'm trying to mimic the XF body movement. Quads are locked to try to prevent pelvic tilt. The ric I'm still undecided on; feels right, not sure on the biomechanics yet.
Next week, hopefully back to MLHF, with maybe the non-overlapping exercises in between.
The difference in weight stack is most notable in the Vertical Chest. The negative felt way too easy, positive too hard, to where I "failed" due to ache right in the front shoulders. If Jeff were to test the friction in this piece, I'm sure it would be outrageous.
Hip Abd and Add: I have a new respect for these two. The Abd is the only piece that isolates glutes without complications. I make a point of locking the feet into the rungs and using glutes and hams to raise myself slightly from the seat; or more precisely, to avoid dragging my hamstrings and sitting on the muscles I'm trying to work. I also try to lock down the abs to prevent the pelvis from tipping as fatigue sets in. The whole beauty of the movement is to work the glutes without tweaking the lumbar, so if you rely on the seat belt and your lumbar flops as fatigue sets in, you defeat the purpose. You may get more reps that way, but I prefer locking in until the movement stalls so the lumbar isn't an issue at all.
The Hip Adductor seems to help with preventing strains during the guard in jiu jitsu.
Chins, Dr. Darden style. 20 pound assist, 30 seconds negative, 30 positive, 30 negative. The first :30 is like a warm up. The middle 30, I was starting to think bad things about Dr. Darden. The last 30, I stopped thinking those bad things, because I could only concentrate on not falling. Very dramatic effect to doing chins that way.
Dard, for the tibialis. My feet and ankles are a mess structurally. Any muscular support hopefully helps.
Lying rear delt and external rotation. I find my shoulders tend to round forward with chest and lat exercises only, so I include these to try to counter. The dumbbells and body position provide enough cam, although it's a bit awkward.
Curls on the FT, X-Force position. I usually had done incline curls with dumbbells, for all the reasons I put in the Moment Arm Exercise Biceps video. I used the Freedom Trainer to minimize the zero moment arm at the bottom, and made a point of keeping my arms in contact with the bench, to avoid lifting the elbows and another zero moment arm. I'd say a small improvement over db inclines. I may try the old "akinetic" style next, alternating, with the weight stack suspended.
Triceps on the FT. Not quite the XF position, in that I'm leaning back instead of forward. I haven't quite mastered the XF version, possibly because the ruptured triceps (not the one you see in the video) makes it tough to hold the position. Leaning back like this seemed to help, although obviously without the extra negative.
Decline crunch and reverse incline crunch. In the dc, I'm trying to mimic the XF body movement. Quads are locked to try to prevent pelvic tilt. The ric I'm still undecided on; feels right, not sure on the biomechanics yet.
Next week, hopefully back to MLHF, with maybe the non-overlapping exercises in between.
Open User Options Menu

marcrph

Portugal

Awesome WO!

Do you like your adjustable bench? Curious.
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

marcrph wrote:
Awesome WO!

Do you like your adjustable bench? Curious.


I've seen that model get pretty beat up in big gyms, but holding up fine here.
Open User Options Menu

cmg

Bill De Simone wrote:
Unfortunately I had to cancel this week's visit to Main Line, so I did the following in my studio in Cranbury. Some exercises I did to complement the X-Force, some to approximate.

Nitro Vertical Chest, 200x5, between 30 and 60 seconds.
Nitro Hip Abductor.
Nitro Hip Adductor.
Chins on the Greg Anderson assisted machine as per Dr. Darden "30-30-30"/n-p-n. 20#.
Dard.
Lying rear delt.
Lying external rotation.
Curls on Freedom Trainer, X-Force position.
Triceps on FT, modified X-Force position.
Decline Crunch.
Reverse Incline Crunch.

Video at http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=FQi3vPPWsK8
The difference in weight stack is most notable in the Vertical Chest. The negative felt way too easy, positive too hard, to where I "failed" due to ache right in the front shoulders. If Jeff were to test the friction in this piece, I'm sure it would be outrageous.
Hip Abd and Add: I have a new respect for these two. The Abd is the only piece that isolates glutes without complications. I make a point of locking the feet into the rungs and using glutes and hams to raise myself slightly from the seat; or more precisely, to avoid dragging my hamstrings and sitting on the muscles I'm trying to work. I also try to lock down the abs to prevent the pelvis from tipping as fatigue sets in. The whole beauty of the movement is to work the glutes without tweaking the lumbar, so if you rely on the seat belt and your lumbar flops as fatigue sets in, you defeat the purpose. You may get more reps that way, but I prefer locking in until the movement stalls so the lumbar isn't an issue at all.
The Hip Adductor seems to help with preventing strains during the guard in jiu jitsu.
Chins, Dr. Darden style. 20 pound assist, 30 seconds negative, 30 positive, 30 negative. The first :30 is like a warm up. The middle 30, I was starting to think bad things about Dr. Darden. The last 30, I stopped thinking those bad things, because I could only concentrate on not falling. Very dramatic effect to doing chins that way.
Dard, for the tibialis. My feet and ankles are a mess structurally. Any muscular support hopefully helps.
Lying rear delt and external rotation. I find my shoulders tend to round forward with chest and lat exercises only, so I include these to try to counter. The dumbbells and body position provide enough cam, although it's a bit awkward.
Curls on the FT, X-Force position. I usually had done incline curls with dumbbells, for all the reasons I put in the Moment Arm Exercise Biceps video. I used the Freedom Trainer to minimize the zero moment arm at the bottom, and made a point of keeping my arms in contact with the bench, to avoid lifting the elbows and another zero moment arm. I'd say a small improvement over db inclines. I may try the old "akinetic" style next, alternating, with the weight stack suspended.
Triceps on the FT. Not quite the XF position, in that I'm leaning back instead of forward. I haven't quite mastered the XF version, possibly because the ruptured triceps (not the one you see in the video) makes it tough to hold the position. Leaning back like this seemed to help, although obviously without the extra negative.
Decline crunch and reverse incline crunch. In the dc, I'm trying to mimic the XF body movement. Quads are locked to try to prevent pelvic tilt. The ric I'm still undecided on; feels right, not sure on the biomechanics yet.
Next week, hopefully back to MLHF, with maybe the non-overlapping exercises in between.
The difference in weight stack is most notable in the Vertical Chest. The negative felt way too easy, positive too hard, to where I "failed" due to ache right in the front shoulders. If Jeff were to test the friction in this piece, I'm sure it would be outrageous.
Hip Abd and Add: I have a new respect for these two. The Abd is the only piece that isolates glutes without complications. I make a point of locking the feet into the rungs and using glutes and hams to raise myself slightly from the seat; or more precisely, to avoid dragging my hamstrings and sitting on the muscles I'm trying to work. I also try to lock down the abs to prevent the pelvis from tipping as fatigue sets in. The whole beauty of the movement is to work the glutes without tweaking the lumbar, so if you rely on the seat belt and your lumbar flops as fatigue sets in, you defeat the purpose. You may get more reps that way, but I prefer locking in until the movement stalls so the lumbar isn't an issue at all.
The Hip Adductor seems to help with preventing strains during the guard in jiu jitsu.
Chins, Dr. Darden style. 20 pound assist, 30 seconds negative, 30 positive, 30 negative. The first :30 is like a warm up. The middle 30, I was starting to think bad things about Dr. Darden. The last 30, I stopped thinking those bad things, because I could only concentrate on not falling. Very dramatic effect to doing chins that way.
Dard, for the tibialis. My feet and ankles are a mess structurally. Any muscular support hopefully helps.
Lying rear delt and external rotation. I find my shoulders tend to round forward with chest and lat exercises only, so I include these to try to counter. The dumbbells and body position provide enough cam, although it's a bit awkward.
Curls on the FT, X-Force position. I usually had done incline curls with dumbbells, for all the reasons I put in the Moment Arm Exercise Biceps video. I used the Freedom Trainer to minimize the zero moment arm at the bottom, and made a point of keeping my arms in contact with the bench, to avoid lifting the elbows and another zero moment arm. I'd say a small improvement over db inclines. I may try the old "akinetic" style next, alternating, with the weight stack suspended.
Triceps on the FT. Not quite the XF position, in that I'm leaning back instead of forward. I haven't quite mastered the XF version, possibly because the ruptured triceps (not the one you see in the video) makes it tough to hold the position. Leaning back like this seemed to help, although obviously without the extra negative.
Decline crunch and reverse incline crunch. In the dc, I'm trying to mimic the XF body movement. Quads are locked to try to prevent pelvic tilt. The ric I'm still undecided on; feels right, not sure on the biomechanics yet.
Next week, hopefully back to MLHF, with maybe the non-overlapping exercises in between.



Looks like a good workout Bill.

Thanks for sharing!

Ron
Open User Options Menu

frostyF

Why so many changes of clothes throughout the workout?
Leon
Open User Options Menu

fbcoach

You look great on the video Bill..especially your lower body. Are you training 1x/week? Also, did you notice a strength increase on the nautilus nitro from previously training X-force? I ask because I am anxious to see if my strength has increased from my own short experiment using NA exercise the last few weeks.
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

frostyF wrote:
Why so many changes of clothes throughout the workout?
Leon


Just me goofing around. The first was an Optimal Exercise shirt, for the chin was Southside Johnny, the dard Van Halen, to go with the music in the background, the last was one for a fund raiser Dwayne Wimmer put on.
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

fbcoach wrote:
You look great on the video Bill..especially your lower body. Are you training 1x/week? Also, did you notice a strength increase on the nautilus nitro from previously training X-force? I ask because I am anxious to see if my strength has increased from my own short experiment using NA exercise the last few weeks.


Once/week on X-Force for the last 7 weeks, then this workout this week. With the X-Force, I've done the leg curl and leg extension for the first time in over 7 years (Nitro leg press and ab/ad only in that time). No cardio except for run/walks with dog. Yoga 3x/week, jiu jitsu light 1x/week.

Previously the highest I went on the Nitro Vertical Chest was 175 for 10. this was 200 for 5. Don't honestly know if I could have done 200x5 when I did the 175/10. But I loaded up the stack because I was also curious about the same.

Ron cmg above, thanks for the good words.
Open User Options Menu

fbcoach

Bill De Simone wrote:
fbcoach wrote:
You look great on the video Bill..especially your lower body. Are you training 1x/week? Also, did you notice a strength increase on the nautilus nitro from previously training X-force? I ask because I am anxious to see if my strength has increased from my own short experiment using NA exercise the last few weeks.

Once/week on X-Force for the last 7 weeks, then this workout this week. With the X-Force, I've done the leg curl and leg extension for the first time in over 7 years (Nitro leg press and ab/ad only in that time). No cardio except for run/walks with dog. Yoga 3x/week, jiu jitsu light 1x/week.

Previously the highest I went on the Nitro Vertical Chest was 175 for 10. this was 200 for 5. Don't honestly know if I could have done 200x5 when I did the 175/10. But I loaded up the stack because I was also curious about the same.

Ron cmg above, thanks for the good words.


Thanks for the response Bill. I have been using NA exercises the past few weeks, using the "rush factor", and training every 5 days. I have a surgery coming up next Wednesday, so I am going to test my strength tomorrow and next Tuesday on several basic exercises. I will make a thread about my short experiment.
Open User Options Menu

AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Bill De Simone wrote:
Unfortunately I had to cancel this week's visit to Main Line, so I did the following in my studio in Cranbury. Some exercises I did to complement the X-Force, some to approximate.

Nitro Vertical Chest, 200x5, between 30 and 60 seconds.
Nitro Hip Abductor.
Nitro Hip Adductor.
Chins on the Greg Anderson assisted machine as per Dr. Darden "30-30-30"/n-p-n. 20#.
Dard.
Lying rear delt.
Lying external rotation.
Curls on Freedom Trainer, X-Force position.
Triceps on FT, modified X-Force position.
Decline Crunch.
Reverse Incline Crunch.

Video at http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=FQi3vPPWsK8
The difference in weight stack is most notable in the Vertical Chest. The negative felt way too easy, positive too hard, to where I "failed" due to ache right in the front shoulders. If Jeff were to test the friction in this piece, I'm sure it would be outrageous.
Hip Abd and Add: I have a new respect for these two. The Abd is the only piece that isolates glutes without complications. I make a point of locking the feet into the rungs and using glutes and hams to raise myself slightly from the seat; or more precisely, to avoid dragging my hamstrings and sitting on the muscles I'm trying to work. I also try to lock down the abs to prevent the pelvis from tipping as fatigue sets in. The whole beauty of the movement is to work the glutes without tweaking the lumbar, so if you rely on the seat belt and your lumbar flops as fatigue sets in, you defeat the purpose. You may get more reps that way, but I prefer locking in until the movement stalls so the lumbar isn't an issue at all.
The Hip Adductor seems to help with preventing strains during the guard in jiu jitsu.
Chins, Dr. Darden style. 20 pound assist, 30 seconds negative, 30 positive, 30 negative. The first :30 is like a warm up. The middle 30, I was starting to think bad things about Dr. Darden. The last 30, I stopped thinking those bad things, because I could only concentrate on not falling. Very dramatic effect to doing chins that way.
Dard, for the tibialis. My feet and ankles are a mess structurally. Any muscular support hopefully helps.
Lying rear delt and external rotation. I find my shoulders tend to round forward with chest and lat exercises only, so I include these to try to counter. The dumbbells and body position provide enough cam, although it's a bit awkward.
Curls on the FT, X-Force position. I usually had done incline curls with dumbbells, for all the reasons I put in the Moment Arm Exercise Biceps video. I used the Freedom Trainer to minimize the zero moment arm at the bottom, and made a point of keeping my arms in contact with the bench, to avoid lifting the elbows and another zero moment arm. I'd say a small improvement over db inclines. I may try the old "akinetic" style next, alternating, with the weight stack suspended.
Triceps on the FT. Not quite the XF position, in that I'm leaning back instead of forward. I haven't quite mastered the XF version, possibly because the ruptured triceps (not the one you see in the video) makes it tough to hold the position. Leaning back like this seemed to help, although obviously without the extra negative.
Decline crunch and reverse incline crunch. In the dc, I'm trying to mimic the XF body movement. Quads are locked to try to prevent pelvic tilt. The ric I'm still undecided on; feels right, not sure on the biomechanics yet.
Next week, hopefully back to MLHF, with maybe the non-overlapping exercises in between.
The difference in weight stack is most notable in the Vertical Chest. The negative felt way too easy, positive too hard, to where I "failed" due to ache right in the front shoulders. If Jeff were to test the friction in this piece, I'm sure it would be outrageous.
Hip Abd and Add: I have a new respect for these two. The Abd is the only piece that isolates glutes without complications. I make a point of locking the feet into the rungs and using glutes and hams to raise myself slightly from the seat; or more precisely, to avoid dragging my hamstrings and sitting on the muscles I'm trying to work. I also try to lock down the abs to prevent the pelvis from tipping as fatigue sets in. The whole beauty of the movement is to work the glutes without tweaking the lumbar, so if you rely on the seat belt and your lumbar flops as fatigue sets in, you defeat the purpose. You may get more reps that way, but I prefer locking in until the movement stalls so the lumbar isn't an issue at all.
The Hip Adductor seems to help with preventing strains during the guard in jiu jitsu.
Chins, Dr. Darden style. 20 pound assist, 30 seconds negative, 30 positive, 30 negative. The first :30 is like a warm up. The middle 30, I was starting to think bad things about Dr. Darden. The last 30, I stopped thinking those bad things, because I could only concentrate on not falling. Very dramatic effect to doing chins that way.
Dard, for the tibialis. My feet and ankles are a mess structurally. Any muscular support hopefully helps.
Lying rear delt and external rotation. I find my shoulders tend to round forward with chest and lat exercises only, so I include these to try to counter. The dumbbells and body position provide enough cam, although it's a bit awkward.
Curls on the FT, X-Force position. I usually had done incline curls with dumbbells, for all the reasons I put in the Moment Arm Exercise Biceps video. I used the Freedom Trainer to minimize the zero moment arm at the bottom, and made a point of keeping my arms in contact with the bench, to avoid lifting the elbows and another zero moment arm. I'd say a small improvement over db inclines. I may try the old "akinetic" style next, alternating, with the weight stack suspended.
Triceps on the FT. Not quite the XF position, in that I'm leaning back instead of forward. I haven't quite mastered the XF version, possibly because the ruptured triceps (not the one you see in the video) makes it tough to hold the position. Leaning back like this seemed to help, although obviously without the extra negative.
Decline crunch and reverse incline crunch. In the dc, I'm trying to mimic the XF body movement. Quads are locked to try to prevent pelvic tilt. The ric I'm still undecided on; feels right, not sure on the biomechanics yet.
Next week, hopefully back to MLHF, with maybe the non-overlapping exercises in between.


This was an excellent post Bill thank you. I can really relate to the abductor stuff. Never thought Add/Abd was worth much until I realized how bad I needed it.

Regards,
Andrew
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Back at Main Line H&F this past Monday. 8th X-Force session. LC, LQ, LP, Lat Back Circle, Row, Pec Arm Cross, Pec Seated Press, Lat Back Pull, Delt Lift, Angle Press, Curl, Triceps, Ab Crunch, ie the whole magilla.
then I snuck back for a round on the Medx Neck extension and Super Forearm, wc, rwc, pro, sup, grip.

All sets with the heaviest weights so far, for about 1:00, stalling on the positive and controlling the remaining negative. Except for the LP, which Dr. Darden apparently suggested to Roger that I reduce some weight and aim for 15 reps.

Those two guys, a real laugh riot.
Motivation is a funny thing. Roger suggested that, and added, 'if you do this with this weight, you're the man'. Which I didn't really take to heart, but apparently the reptilian brain took over. The last 3 reps were pretty miserable, I must say. Next two days, quite sore in the glutes and hamstrings.

On the Lat Pull, Roger added a plate and said, "i doubt you'll do 60 seconds here". Pff. And then quite sore in the lats and traps for 2 days.
Noticing a couple of unexpected things. Adapting to this number of exercises happens. Ever since Body by Science, posters write as if anything over 5 sets in a workout will irreparably damage your metabolism; even though Dr. McGuff, in his own workouts, doesn't quite stick to that.

The second thing is finding a range of working weights.
The first several XF sessions, as I was learning the machines and underestimating the weights, I'd "fail" at 1:30 or so, but mainly from too much burning, not stalling on the positive. Once advancing the weights, I'd stall at about 1:00 with less burning. But then there seems to be a range of weights that I stall around 1:00 with, and the next higher increment drops that time to under :30.

What I find interesting (but not all consuming) is that with conventional stacks and weights, I prefer :30-:45 sets. And many times those sets stop because of joint discomfort, not muscle stalling. And so it led to a second set, or rest-pause, or some other way of trying to deplete that muscle's strength (for lack of a better description).

At this point, I just like the feel of the Xforce stack, better than the vertical stack. One set feels complete; stopping the set because the muscle is spent. Not prematurely because of joint discomfort, or burning so much that you want to stop.

Next workout will be back in my studio, and I'm going to try a Darden-inspired negative-positive-negative rep routine. Dard, Adductor, Nitro Leg Press, abductor, straight elbow pulldown, cable flye, rear delt, curl, triceps, chin, reverse crunch, decline crunch.

It's hard for me to tell if training this way has had a visible effect, so I'll take a video, and then compare it to the one I did in August 2012 for Congruent Exercise. My training between then and January 2013 was junk, so any changes will be easy to attribute.
Open User Options Menu

Hitit

Mr. Strong wrote:
Hitit wrote:
14 or 10 exercises seems like allot! Why so much?

You are getting allot of crossover, yes?

I thought with especially these machines doing less was more productive due to the deeper fatigue?

Even 10 movements using non-X-FOrce machines is really pushing it IMO. Unless you're a beginner (maybe you consider a beginner with X-FOrce finding your weight/rep nitch on these) or MAYBE if you are a 25 year old or on enhancements.

What are your thoughts?





Its not really a lot, just seems a lot from your perspective.

HIT workouts used to be longer than 6 sets, multi sets on some exercises as well, workouts can be longer than 15 minutes.



But what are the "typical" HIT workouts recommendations NOW?

I'm not the "Expert" with this, but I suspect that Bill has been able to do more because of his high TUT. 1:30 on any set seem too long to me to really be hitting the FT muscles and therefore less demanding on the CNS and recovery.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I just find it difficult to see someone in their mid 50's doing so many exercises TTF (but using lower TUL) and with so much frequency (2-3 times per week was it?) being able to sustain very long.

Perhaps if they are more ST dominant?
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Hitit wrote:

But what are the "typical" HIT workouts recommendations NOW?

I'm not the "Expert" with this, but I suspect that Bill has been able to do more because of his high TUT. 1:30 on any set seem too long to me to really be hitting the FT muscles and therefore less demanding on the CNS and recovery.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I just find it difficult to see someone in their mid 50's doing so many exercises TTF (but using lower TUL) and with so much frequency (2-3 times per week was it?) being able to sustain very long.

Perhaps if they are more ST dominant?



I'm doing this once/week for 1:00 per set, not 3x, with a lot of burning each set. Sustaining that effort once/week is not going to be an issue.
Plus, with so many other things in life affecting one's energy on a given day, why assume it's the number of sets in a workout? Exactly my point about the BBS influence.

Open User Options Menu

Hitit

Bill De Simone wrote:
Hitit wrote:

But what are the "typical" HIT workouts recommendations NOW?

I'm not the "Expert" with this, but I suspect that Bill has been able to do more because of his high TUT. 1:30 on any set seem too long to me to really be hitting the FT muscles and therefore less demanding on the CNS and recovery.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I just find it difficult to see someone in their mid 50's doing so many exercises TTF (but using lower TUL) and with so much frequency (2-3 times per week was it?) being able to sustain very long.

Perhaps if they are more ST dominant?


I'm doing this once/week for 1:00 per set, not 3x, with a lot of burning each set. Sustaining that effort once/week is not going to be an issue.
Plus, with so many other things in life affecting one's energy on a given day, why assume it's the number of sets in a workout? Exactly my point about the BBS influence.



Once a wk. does sound better (to me anyways) then what I thought you mentioned before which was much more frequency (although still a high number of exercises).

It seems you have been increasing your TTF intensity and TUL and increasing your recovery times than what you first began with?

Which I suppose is what I thought first was more in line with expectations.

Please don't misinterpret by comments, or is there any intent of disrespect (I respect your opinions allot) they are not meant as criticism or that I "know it all" (far from that) but just comments for thought.

Brian
Open User Options Menu

overfiftylifter

Bill, do you believe in the muscle protein synthesis time window that is developed after resistance training? If you do, would training once a week be optimal for muscle growth?

Also, if local lowering of the pH levels in the trained muscular has been suggested as a factor in hypertrophy, wouldn't developed the greatest "burn" be a desired training effect?
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

overfiftylifter wrote:
Bill, do you believe in the muscle protein synthesis time window that is developed after resistance training? If you do, would training once a week be optimal for muscle growth?

Also, if local lowering of the pH levels in the trained muscular has been suggested as a factor in hypertrophy, wouldn't developed the greatest "burn" be a desired training effect?


Good points.
Optimal muscle growth: I don't know if once/week is optimal, compared to any other frequency. My personal interest isn't so much in maximum muscle, as in "maximum muscle given what I'm willing to do for it". What I'm willing to do right now is train this hard once/week and see what happens.
Greatest burn: I think Dr. Darden quoted me on this in his last book. I don't know if the "greatest" burn is the answer, but if it was, I don't want to do it (getting back to "what I'm willing to do for it"). "Burn" does factor into it, which I think is where pre-exhaustion fits in, i.e. multiple bouts on a muscle, so that you still train to failure, but you gradually move towards the burn rather than all in one set.
Open User Options Menu

Mr. Strong

Hitit wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
Hitit wrote:
14 or 10 exercises seems like allot! Why so much?

You are getting allot of crossover, yes?

I thought with especially these machines doing less was more productive due to the deeper fatigue?

Even 10 movements using non-X-FOrce machines is really pushing it IMO. Unless you're a beginner (maybe you consider a beginner with X-FOrce finding your weight/rep nitch on these) or MAYBE if you are a 25 year old or on enhancements.

What are your thoughts?





Its not really a lot, just seems a lot from your perspective.

HIT workouts used to be longer than 6 sets, multi sets on some exercises as well, workouts can be longer than 15 minutes.



But what are the "typical" HIT workouts recommendations NOW?

I'm not the "Expert" with this, but I suspect that Bill has been able to do more because of his high TUT. 1:30 on any set seem too long to me to really be hitting the FT muscles and therefore less demanding on the CNS and recovery.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I just find it difficult to see someone in their mid 50's doing so many exercises TTF (but using lower TUL) and with so much frequency (2-3 times per week was it?) being able to sustain very long.

Perhaps if they are more ST dominant?




Is 10 sets really too much? What do you do in your training?

Even with a shorter set 10 sets wouldn't be too much.

Knowing how far to push each set in a workout does help though, its very easy to over reach on the first couple of sets and thus render the rest of the workout less effective.
Open User Options Menu

tifhw

Louisiana, USA

Bill De Simone wrote:
overfiftylifter wrote:
Bill, do you believe in the muscle protein synthesis time window that is developed after resistance training? If you do, would training once a week be optimal for muscle growth?

Also, if local lowering of the pH levels in the trained muscular has been suggested as a factor in hypertrophy, wouldn't developed the greatest "burn" be a desired training effect?

Good points.
Optimal muscle growth: I don't know if once/week is optimal, compared to any other frequency. My personal interest isn't so much in maximum muscle, as in "maximum muscle given what I'm willing to do for it". What I'm willing to do right now is train this hard once/week and see what happens.
Greatest burn: I think Dr. Darden quoted me on this in his last book. I don't know if the "greatest" burn is the answer, but if it was, I don't want to do it (getting back to "what I'm willing to do for it"). "Burn" does factor into it, which I think is where pre-exhaustion fits in, i.e. multiple bouts on a muscle, so that you still train to failure, but you gradually move towards the burn rather than all in one set.



It doesn't appear that you are after maximum muscle.
Open User Options Menu

Bill Sekerak

California, USA

Wish they were in southern Ca so I could try them.Anybody know of them in Ca ? Maybe they wouldn't be so costly if they wre made almost anywhere but Sweden. Talk about high taxes and labor costs , wow.
Open User Options Menu

Hitit

Mr. Strong wrote:
Hitit wrote:
Mr. Strong wrote:
Hitit wrote:
14 or 10 exercises seems like allot! Why so much?

You are getting allot of crossover, yes?

I thought with especially these machines doing less was more productive due to the deeper fatigue?

Even 10 movements using non-X-FOrce machines is really pushing it IMO. Unless you're a beginner (maybe you consider a beginner with X-FOrce finding your weight/rep nitch on these) or MAYBE if you are a 25 year old or on enhancements.

What are your thoughts?





Its not really a lot, just seems a lot from your perspective.

HIT workouts used to be longer than 6 sets, multi sets on some exercises as well, workouts can be longer than 15 minutes.



But what are the "typical" HIT workouts recommendations NOW?

I'm not the "Expert" with this, but I suspect that Bill has been able to do more because of his high TUT. 1:30 on any set seem too long to me to really be hitting the FT muscles and therefore less demanding on the CNS and recovery.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I just find it difficult to see someone in their mid 50's doing so many exercises TTF (but using lower TUL) and with so much frequency (2-3 times per week was it?) being able to sustain very long.

Perhaps if they are more ST dominant?



Is 10 sets really too much? What do you do in your training?

Even with a shorter set 10 sets wouldn't be too much.

Knowing how far to push each set in a workout does help though, its very easy to over reach on the first couple of sets and thus render the rest of the workout less effective.


I'm not so sure it's really the number of movements alone. It's the number combined with compounds/the intensity/ and cross-over using the same muscles TTF on repeated movements workout after workout and doing so with higher frequency/lower recovery (yes I know you feel you can condition yourself to do more and more and more and more).

And especially with x-force it seems the machines already dig deep into fatigue so it was seemingly apparent to me that more was too much.
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Back. Change of pace, push-pull workout.
LC, LQ, LP (with 500 for 1:00)*, Lat back circle, seated chest press, row, angle press, pulldown, dip 30-30-30 wannabee**.

Seated chest, row, angle, pulldown with a full plate increment increase, since no pre-exhaust. All 1:00 more or less, stalling on the positive with a controlled negative.
The LP with 500, my heaviest, was a much better idea before I got back in the car for an hour plus drive home.
The dip was a wannabee. Bodyweight, 30 second negative, 15 second positive, 5 second negative, not by design, just ran out of gas.
LQ video: http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=ibDL9zGm4rU
CP video: http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=RD-3UKbtg20

Will probably follow this up on Thursday for what I missed: ab ad, dard, delt, biceps, triceps, abs. Then see what happens next Monday back on the X. If performance suffers, I'll know to cut the follow session out.
Open User Options Menu

overfiftylifter

Bill, you show excellent frontal thigh development when performing the leg quad exercise. Hope you continue to make progress.

When performing the sitting bench press, can the range of motion be reduced to eliminate lockout?
Open User Options Menu

Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

overfiftylifter wrote:
Bill, you show excellent frontal thigh development when performing the leg quad exercise. Hope you continue to make progress.

When performing the sitting bench press, can the range of motion be reduced to eliminate lockout?


If i remember correctly, no. the seat back adjusts for the starting point, but no range limiter at the other end.
btw, I'm not locked out and resting, i'm just short of lockout, pause one second for the stack to right itself, then lowering with the stack in the fully vertical position. Otherwise you race the stack to the bottom, a valid way to use it, just not one I'm using.
Open User Options Menu
First | Previous | 1 | 2 | 3
H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy