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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Evidence-Based Strength Training
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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

Also, how about the diet of the subjects? Was that taken into account? It may have but not included in the abstract.I tend to dismiss any results from studies relating to muscle hypertrophy if one of the variables not accounted for is diet.
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overfiftylifter

If it took up to 6 weeks to develop significant gains in CSA in novice trainees. Do you expect it to be even more accelerated in the prior trained?
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overfiftylifter

Another study using sedentary population. Again, most of us know from experience that novice trainees tend to respond more rapidly to new stimulus. Observe again the time frame and the reference to early edema.


Eur J Appl Physiol. 2011 Nov;111(11):2785-90. doi: 10.1007/s00421-011-1905-4. Epub 2011 Mar 16.
An examination of the time course of training-induced skeletal muscle hypertrophy.
DeFreitas JM, Beck TW, Stock MS, Dillon MA, Kasishke PR 2nd.
Source
Department of Health and Exercise Science, University of Oklahoma, 1401 Asp Avenue, Norman, OK 73019, USA. defreitas@ou.edu

Abstract
Skeletal muscle hypertrophy is typically considered to be a slow process. However, this is partly because the time course for hypertrophy has not been thoroughly examined. The purpose of this study was to use weekly testing to determine a precise time course of skeletal muscle hypertrophy during a resistance training program. Twenty-five healthy, sedentary men performed 8 weeks of high-intensity resistance training.

Whole muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) of the dominant thigh was assessed using a peripheral quantitative computed tomography scanner during each week of training (W1-W8). Isometric maximum voluntary contractions (MVC) were also measured each week. After only two training sessions (W1), the mean thigh muscle CSA increased by 5.0 cm(2) (3.46%; p < 0.05) from the pre-testing (P1) and continued to increase with each testing session. It is possible that muscular edema may have influenced the early CSA results. To adjust for this possibility, with edema assumedly at its highest at W1, the next significant increase from W1 was at W3. W4 was the first significant increase of MVC over P1.

Therefore, significant skeletal muscle hypertrophy likely occurred around weeks 3-4. Overall, from the pre-testing to W8, there was an increase of 13.9 cm(2) (9.60%). These findings suggested that training-induced skeletal muscle hypertrophy may occur early in a training program.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Accelerated in those with previous training? Impossible... the longer you train, the more you are adapted to exercise stress. SAID... GAS... EVOLUTION THEORY all support this. It would be even more difficult, which is why advanced trainees ALWAYS will get the biggest response from that which is unusual or new (there's already a few studies out there that mention this... but then again... it's a study that does not take into account lots of things, like genetics or psychology).
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overfiftylifter

This study used trained individuals.

J Strength Cond Res. 2002 Feb;16(1):25-32.
The effects of accentuated eccentric loading on strength, muscle hypertrophy, and neural adaptations in trained individuals.
Brandenburg JP, Docherty D.
Source
School of Physical Education, University of Victoria, Victoria, BC.

Abstract
The purpose of this study was to compare the strength and neuromuscular adaptations for dynamic constant external resistance (DCER) training and dynamic accentuated external resistance (DAER) training (resistance training employing an accentuated load during eccentric actions). Male subjects active in resistance training were assigned to either a DCER training group (n = 10) or a DAER training group (n = 8) for 9 weeks. Subjects in the DCER group performed 4 sets of 10 repetitions with a load of 75% concentric 1 repetition maximum (RM). Subjects in the DAER group performed 3 sets of 10 repetitions with a concentric load of 75% of 1RM and an eccentric load of approximately 120% of concentric 1RM. Three measures reflecting adaptation of elbow flexors and extensors were recorded pretraining and posttraining: concentric 1RM, muscle cross-sectional area (CSA), and specific tension. Strength was assessed at midtraining periods. No significant changes in muscle CSA were observed in either group. Both training groups experienced significant increases in concentric 1RM and specific tension of both the elbow flexors and extensors, but compared with DCER training, DAER training produced significantly greater increases in concentric 1RM of the elbow extensors. These results suggest that, for some exercises, DAER training may be more effective than DCER training in developing strength within a 9-week training phase. However, for trained subjects, neither protocol is effective in eliciting muscle hypertrophy.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

You hit the nail on the head... those new to training respond best because it is a NEW AND UNUSUAL STIMULUS. Therefore, a person who has exercise experience and has adapted to some extent to the lifting of weights is in MORE of a need for a NEW AND UNUSUAL STIMULUS. This is not understood by many because their focus is on progressive overloading or adding reps... and they become more skilled and neurologically efficient in lifting those heavier loads... which deceives one into thinking that improvement is being made (toward hypertrophy). And I'm not saying hypertrophy cannot be had if you keep hammering the same exercises in the same way for years on end... but it is the LEAST EFFICIENT way in doing it.
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overfiftylifter

I think it is difficult to elicit immediate gains in hypertrophy in the trained individual. I have posted these studies for those who expect to see immediate muscular gains from any program. Most likely, the initial "gains" we see in the mirror post training is edema. I believe this edema may help motivate the body to respond with signaling etc. to promote hypertrophy but is not the actual growth itself.

When people say they lost the "pump" the next day, that is the normal physiological response to the training trauma. True growth comes later. To see benefits of a program, it may be best to observe your reflection after some time away from the iron.
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dcshores

California, USA

I have to agree with Brian here. When I make visual gains they come quickly, never slowly over time, even when gaining strength. Looking back over my 30 year training career, I have only made visual progress with a rather extreme variation. Recently my very resistant arms have grown 1/3 inch(no caliper or waist change) after employing some freestyle J-reps with very long TUL's and training arms 2-3 times a week.

David
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overfiftylifter

David, most of us would agree with you from past experience and it is good to read of your training success, but when the physiology of muscle growth is studied, most of what we appear to see initially in the mirror and tape is edema, muscle cell swelling etc., in reaction to training trauma. This is one of the reasons why when Professor Laura tests a new pattern, he tests out the results over a period of at least 6 weeks. The first 3-4 weeks are thought to be the acute reaction to training trauma. The period following are the true results.

With Metabolic Hypertrophy Training, using a working tension range, tonic cadence and varied movements, usually there is a very strong immediate response, with local muscle edema and trainees are told to look for this response.

Science suggests that there is a process of signalling-protein synthesis that develops post training which generates muscle growth. Muscles develop through a physiological process which takes time.

The novice trainee, when exposed to new stress, usually has a strong signalling response. It appears that chronic training appears to inhibit this effect, causing reductions in mTor etc, possibly a factor leading to our hypertrophy plateaus. I believe that, and this is conjecture, that the frequent changes that programs like Matrix, Zone, and Brian's newer material promote, due to the variety of stimulus, reduces this inhibition.

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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

I've been "edema'd" for the past 10 years, lol.
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Mr. Strong

Hitit wrote:
Brian,

Will you give more workout routine advise here on the Forum?

I want to look at more options to what I'm doing (FB HIT) and possibly a split.

I've done only HIT style FB wo's for the last 20 years.

Brian





Have you had any examples from him yet? Maybe by PM?

You are genuinely asking for advice yet you are given only vagueness by way of answer.

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dcshores

California, USA

Maybe Brian is doing ten sets of ten. LOL
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Mr. Strong

Brian Johnston wrote:
Accelerated in those with previous training? Impossible... the longer you train, the more you are adapted to exercise stress. SAID... GAS... EVOLUTION THEORY all support this. It would be even more difficult, which is why advanced trainees ALWAYS will get the biggest response from that which is unusual or new (there's already a few studies out there that mention this... but then again... it's a study that does not take into account lots of things, like genetics or psychology).




Always? That leaves no exceptions, you certain? Or will you back track again?
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Yes, always.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

I've never back tracked... you took my comments out of context or refused to look at everything I stated within the context of the concept. But here we go again, another smart ass comment with nothing to offer except to put me down. What a genius you are. And I owe no one anything in regard to examples or describing things... I've given plenty on this site over the past few months while you've given NOTHING. We're still waiting for your brilliant insights... seriously... just one. Or maybe a photo to show what you've done with your training knowledge... seriously... just one.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
http://www.medicinasportiva.pl/...3_08_Fisher.pdf

A very thorough paper by James Fisher, looking at years of research on what is and is not effective in strength training.


Are sure Arthur Jones did not channel this to the researchers from the grave ?
Seriously , thank you very much for this link. It is a great paper and I am glad you brought to everyones attention. A copy of this should be sent to every strength coach ( especially football ) and personal trainer in the world. It would help an awful lot of people if it was, I hope.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

overfiftylifter wrote:
Brian, thank you for posting this paper. I have read it before. The authors didn't seem greatly interested in changes in muscle CSA. The focus seemed to be about the value of training to failure, lack of evidence of using vibration and load may not be as important as the effort applied to that load.

As far rapid increases in hypertrophy, in my past readings, studies suggest growth spurts can occur up to 4 to 6 weeks into the training. Some suggest even longer and speculation of the authors is that strength is first developed and then compensatory muscle gains. So if one is using a "conventional" training program, perhaps greater patience is needed. If you are a experience trainee, even greater patience.

We have though a bit of a paradox when lower loads and greater training volume is utilized . Much of the research on Kaatsu/blood flow restriction training demonstrate near immediate changes in muscle CSA. Some of the papers from McMaster on lower load training also suggest the same.


Vibration ? Please explain.
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Mr. Strong

dcshores wrote:
Maybe Brian is doing ten sets of ten. LOL


Are you going to share an example?
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Mr. Strong

Brian Johnston wrote:
Yes, always.


Not true.
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Mr. Strong

Brian Johnston wrote:
I've never back tracked... you took my comments out of context or refused to look at everything I stated within the context of the concept. But here we go again, another smart ass comment with nothing to offer except to put me down. What a genius you are. And I owe no one anything in regard to examples or describing things... I've given plenty on this site over the past few months while you've given NOTHING. We're still waiting for your brilliant insights... seriously... just one. Or maybe a photo to show what you've done with your training knowledge... seriously... just one.


You have given nothing of value. Merely untruths and vagueness. Never anything of real substance or help.

When asked for advice you don't even give a response, so helpful, lol.

Its almost as if you are just here to try to pick up potential consultation clients.
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Mr. Strong

dcshores wrote:
I have to agree with Brian here. When I make visual gains they come quickly, never slowly over time, even when gaining strength. Looking back over my 30 year training career, I have only made visual progress with a rather extreme variation. Recently my very resistant arms have grown 1/3 inch(no caliper or waist change) after employing some freestyle J-reps with very long TUL's and training arms 2-3 times a week.

David




Any of this true, or you just trying to support your hero? Lol, sad.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Rather than ruining this thread, as you always do... how about YOU give some helpful advice. You claim I give untruths, but do not PROVE this (you merely state the opposite... how brilliant). You're a typical Internet idiot. No, I don't want to give an example because currently I'm experimenting with things, and although you think none of my advice is helpful, there are several people on this board who think otherwise... my posts are for them, not for you... instigator and contributor of NOTHING.

That is why you are so bitter and find it necessary to comment every time I comment (never do you comment otherwise... notice that... you Internet stalker?); you cannot contribute anything of value, and must be destructive instead. But let me guess... this is where you come in and claim I'm the 'sad' one, etc., etc., lol. Peace be with you brother... you need it... you need to be at peace with your mediocrity and move on.
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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

Mr. Strong's only training "advice" I could find:

"You want to know how to progress, okay.

Lets use our old friend the pull up as an example. Lets assume you are eating enough to sustain lean mass gain.

Your one set max in the pull up is 16 reps, with bw. You want those arms and back bigger. What do we do?

10 sets of 8 is the target, with 2 minutes rest between sets, when you can do all 10 sets with full ROM in good fashion with the 2 minutes rest between sets, you add 1 rep to each, now you might not get it on all sets, but when you again can do all 10 sets with full ROM in good fashion with 2 minutes rest between sets, then you add another rep. You will reach a point where you are doing 10 sets of 16 with full ROM in good fashion with 2 minutes rest between sets. Your previous one set max for 10 sets. And your bodyweight will be increasing this whole time as well.

Can give a weighted example if you don't get the idea, the difference is that reps remain the same but weight increases.

There are other ways of doing it, but I like the simplicity of this approach."

Brian, I mean c'mon. Do you really believe that Zone training or cluster sets can even compare to the above?? lol.
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overfiftylifter

Bill, these are some of the examples of research using vibration.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...pubmed/23444091

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...pubmed/22654645

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...pubmed/21809090
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Hitit

Mr. Strong wrote:
Hitit wrote:
Brian,

Will you give more workout routine advise here on the Forum?

I want to look at more options to what I'm doing (FB HIT) and possibly a split.

I've done only HIT style FB wo's for the last 20 years.

Brian




Have you had any examples from him yet? Maybe by PM?

You are genuinely asking for advice yet you are given only vagueness by way of answer.



No I've not but it's ok, I'm sure he doesn't want to take the role of PT on the Forum and as I understand his training style is so unstructured (by outward appearance) it's difficult to articulate it for others to follow. Brian has shared a few new open Forum ideas in depth that I've been playing around with as variety, so I appreciate that.

Brian can be a bit sharp with words and has little patience with detractions from others as well has intolerance for those who come across condescending and maybe even challenging.

I suppose he has lost his sense of empathy for Forum debates or maybe appears vague when it comes to certain responses when it may come to fruitless posts or when trying to over simplify complicated answers.

But I say he has been very clear and direct and detailed when discussing some of the techniques in the past (J-reps, Zones, 3x5's and variations, etc.) and with his training philosophies.

What exactly do you want from him?

What are you contesting exactly?
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