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''Low Normal'' Testosterone Levels
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lildrummerboy80

I thought I'd post this here rather than over at bb.com just to get some input from a smaller group. I'm a 36 year old male and I weight train 3 X a week on non consecutive days. Usually full body workouts. I haven't been feeling myself the past year or so. Experienced unexplained weight gain and a general feeling of being tired. so I had some bloodwork done. Part of that was a full testosterone workup, and my total testosterone is 344. Average for my age is around 600.

Anyway, since that number still falls under the category of "normal" my doctor won't prescribe anything. Has anybody tried anything that helped them in this situation? A natural test booster? I know most are scams but I'm not looking for steroid like results. Just something that will get me in the ballpark of "normal" rather than just "normal for an 89 year old man". Thanks!
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HeavyHitter32

lildrummerboy80 wrote:
I thought I'd post this here rather than over at bb.com just to get some input from a smaller group. I'm a 36 year old male and I weight train 3 X a week on non consecutive days. Usually full body workouts. I haven't been feeling myself the past year or so. Experienced unexplained weight gain and a general feeling of being tired. so I had some bloodwork done. Part of that was a full testosterone workup, and my total testosterone is 344. Average for my age is around 600.

Anyway, since that number still falls under the category of "normal" my doctor won't prescribe anything. Has anybody tried anything that helped them in this situation? A natural test booster? I know most are scams but I'm not looking for steroid like results. Just something that will get me in the ballpark of "normal" rather than just "normal for an 89 year old man". Thanks!


You have to keep in mind too, testosterone levels will vary throughout the day so measurements will vary. Also, if you haven't been sleeping well, stressed out, etc. in regards to other things...that will bring down levels.

Have you ever had your levels measured before? I would get another measurement done in the future and see.

Also, I'm not sure going from 344 to 600 is really going to make much of a difference in how you feel. Normal is, well, normal. It's no different than a white blood cell or red blood cell count - there is a normal range and fluctuation. Same for liver enzymes, kidney (Creatinine), etc.

Best things for T are minimizing stress, getting sleep, clean diet, etc. about everything else good for health.

Three times per week full body training might be overtraining you too. If you are actually going to true failure, I can almost guarantee it. That could easily explain your fatigue.
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Turpin

I have every faith in my high fat / low carb approach to dieting in order to keep my endocrine levels stable. I have followed this for a number of years now and can honestly say at almost 51yrs I am still making progress and have never felt healthier .

T.
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HeavyHitter32

I had a doctor once tell me that having difficulty to get an erection is typically the biggest indicator of low T.
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backtrack

Reduce your alcohol intake if you drink, and if you're overweight try to loose some of the excess. Eat lot's of oysters.

Above all don't get overcome with worry. Find what makes the sunshine inside you.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

I have to echo the concern over the 3/wk routine. Plus, when was your last layoff?

Take 10-14 days off and then get your T levels re-checked.

When you start back up, think about going at it 2/wk. I'm 54 and couldn't imagine maintaining 3/wk full-body HIT routines for more than a 2-3 week spurt.

Check the recent 'My Training Session with Dr. Darden' for corraboration on frequencies.

Best,
Scott
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lildrummerboy80

Turpin wrote:
I have every faith in my high fat / low carb approach to dieting in order to keep my endocrine levels stable. I have followed this for a number of years now and can honestly say at almost 51yrs I am still making progress and have never felt healthier .

T.


Awesome, I appreciate the input. I too have had varied success on the "anabolic" style diets. High fat, little to no carbs. Difficult to sustain in the long term, for me at least
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lildrummerboy80

simon-hecubus wrote:
I have to echo the concern over the 3/wk routine. Plus, when was your last layoff?

Take 10-14 days off and then get your T levels re-checked.

When you start back up, think about going at it 2/wk. I'm 54 and couldn't imagine maintaining 3/wk full-body HIT routines for more than a 2-3 week spurt.

Check the recent 'My Training Session with Dr. Darden' for corraboration on frequencies.

Best,
Scott


Scott,

I read your write up yesterday and I thought it was awesome. Very motivating. Also, the test was done on a Tuesday with 10 days off of prior exercise. As far as my "full body" routines go. They are far from HIT style training. I mixed it up for the past few months as I was concerned that it was the actual HIT training that was draining my energy. Unfortunately it did not do much (increasing volume/decreasing intensity).
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tsg2513

Florida, USA

What does your diet look like? I was on a very low-fat diet for many years and my T-Levels were gradually reducing each year that I had my blood work done. Last year I switched to a Keto Diet and after 6 months, I had my levels checked and I shot up from 486 to 771.

I believe the prolonged low-fat diet may have suppressed my testosterone levels.
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HeavyHitter32

Yes, too little fat can definitely have that effect.

While I am on more of a Mediterranean diet, I consume nuts, nut butter, 88% cocoa dark chocolate, fish oil, and olive oil daily for fats. It's helped my HDL too.
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DrFist

I remember Mike Mentzer mentioning in one of his books that a normal level of testosterone is necessary.

I'm not sure if it's possible to gain strength and muscle without testosterone...?
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robinn3403

Ah yes. The chasing of the T-Rabbit! I too had low levels but mine where "old man" low! in the mid 100's!!
My general practitioner asked me if had sex desire and could still "get it up". Good to go on both accounts. However, my progress in gym was slow at best!
My doc as well as the local "best" endocrinologist wanted to just put me on Synthetic test. Gave me the needles etc. Got the gel and put that on the inside of the thighs and could tell difference but a pain and messy.
In the interim I saw an advert for an "estrogen blocker". Sparked some research on my part and found out that if you have body fat, it kicks off estradiol which in turn turns your own test into estrogen. I took this product, got blood work done again by another doc and BAM! Free T up to over 500 points! Since then that is what I do, block the estrogen till I can get this fat off me big ass. Have about 60-70 pounds to go.
Don't know if this will help in your case but just wanted to share if it will.
Good luck and take care!
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robinn3403

Ah yes. The chasing of the T-Rabbit! I too had low levels but mine where "old man" low! in the mid 100's!!
My general practitioner asked me if had sex desire and could still "get it up". Good to go on both accounts. However, my progress in gym was slow at best!
My doc as well as the local "best" endocrinologist wanted to just put me on Synthetic test. Gave me the needles etc. Got the gel and put that on the inside of the thighs and could tell difference but a pain and messy.
In the interim I saw an advert for an "estrogen blocker". Sparked some research on my part and found out that if you have body fat, it kicks off estradiol which in turn turns your own test into estrogen. I took this product, got blood work done again by another doc and BAM! Free T up to over 500 points! Since then that is what I do, block the estrogen till I can get this fat off me big ass. Have about 60-70 pounds to go.
Don't know if this will help in your case but just wanted to share if it will.
Good luck and take care!
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

robinn3403 wrote:
... I saw an advert for an "estrogen blocker". Sparked some research on my part and found out that if you have body fat, it kicks off estradiol which in turn turns your own test into estrogen. I took this product, got blood work done again by another doc and BAM! Free T up to over 500 points...


Prescription of supplement? Please name, if you would.
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PTDaniel

DrFist wrote:
I remember Mike Mentzer mentioning in one of his books that a normal level of testosterone is necessary.

I'm not sure if it's possible to gain strength and muscle without testosterone...?


It's possible, but probably not optimal. I have a trainee that gains faster than average. He's 34 and his testosterone levels are clinically low. I think his last reading was 147.
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PTDaniel

simon-hecubus wrote:
robinn3403 wrote:
... I saw an advert for an "estrogen blocker". Sparked some research on my part and found out that if you have body fat, it kicks off estradiol which in turn turns your own test into estrogen. I took this product, got blood work done again by another doc and BAM! Free T up to over 500 points...

Prescription of supplement? Please name, if you would.


You can inhibit the aromatase enzyme to decrease the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. He's may be taking a product containing androsta AKA androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

PTDaniel wrote:
You can inhibit the aromatase enzyme to decrease the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. He's may be taking a product containing androsta AKA androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione.


How does Dindolymethane (DIM) compare in your opinion?
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robinn3403

simon-hecubus wrote:
robinn3403 wrote:
... I saw an advert for an "estrogen blocker". Sparked some research on my part and found out that if you have body fat, it kicks off estradiol in turn turns your own test into estrogen. I took this product, got blood work done again by another doc and BAM! Free T up to over 500 points...

Prescription of supplement? Please name, if you would.


Sorry for late response. :) The product I was taking is or was called Formexx Black. The stuff straight up WORKED!
Was designed in some way to not be deteriorated in the gut/intestines for much better absorption. Was Methylated so this is reason the geniuses in government banned it. Was NOT dangerous to the liver. Never hurt mine so..... Oh well.

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robinn3403

PTDaniel wrote:
DrFist wrote:
I remember Mike Mentzer mentioning in one of his books that a normal level of testosterone is necessary.

I'm not sure if it's possible to gain strength and muscle without testosterone...?

It's possible, but probably not optimal. I have a trainee that gains faster than average. He's 34 and his testosterone levels are clinically low. I think his last reading was 147.


That's crazy isn't it! That was in the neighborhood of my levels. Wonder if he is deficient in Myostatin? Interesting!
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PTDaniel

simon-hecubus wrote:
PTDaniel wrote:
You can inhibit the aromatase enzyme to decrease the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. He's may be taking a product containing androsta AKA androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione.


How does Dindolymethane (DIM) compare in your opinion?


I think DIM increases the rate your body clears estrogen. I don't have experience with DIM. I doubt it is as strong as androsta. Androsta is strong. I took it for a while and it dropped my estrogen so low, I started getting sore joints.
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PTDaniel

robinn3403 wrote:
PTDaniel wrote:
DrFist wrote:
I remember Mike Mentzer mentioning in one of his books that a normal level of testosterone is necessary.

I'm not sure if it's possible to gain strength and muscle without testosterone...?

It's possible, but probably not optimal. I have a trainee that gains faster than average. He's 34 and his testosterone levels are clinically low. I think his last reading was 147.

That's crazy isn't it! That was in the neighborhood of my levels. Wonder if he is deficient in Myostatin? Interesting!


He has some unnamed metabolic disorder. Some of his enzymatic pathways that process hormones and drugs are highly suppressed. He has low thyroid levels and cannot take certain drugs.
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