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Ronnie Coleman Documentary on Netflix
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StuKE

Just noticed the addition of this documentary to Netflix, I believe it is called Ronnie Coleman, The King.
Only watched half of it so far, but it is very interesting, particularly as it covers a lot of Ronnie's severe injuries. Quite sad how he is now, seems like a nice guy.
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hdlifter

I just finished watching it yesterday. Ronnie puts on a brave face, I admire his upbeat nature. When they discussed; "We have to remove your intestines to get to your back to operate on it (due to scar tissue)", that spun my head!!!

I'd trade mobility and a long healthy life for any amount of Sandows! And I am sure I am not alone.
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StuKE

hdlifter wrote:
I just finished watching it yesterday. Ronnie puts on a brave face, I admire his upbeat nature. When they discussed; "We have to remove your intestines to get to your back to operate on it (due to scar tissue)", that spun my head!!!

I'd trade mobility and a long healthy life for any amount of Sandows! And I am sure I am not alone.


Oh no! I must have missed that bitm
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Crotalus

I didn't see the documentary but knew about Ronnie in this condition. As it is in all of sports, many of the top champs later on show the wear, tear and damage being the best has cost them. But I'd say this is one of the things that set them apart ... willing to do what ever it takes ... and sometimes they go too far. Same goes for some boxers, football players and hockey players.

I always loved Ronnie's training clips and just he seemed to be a fun guy you'd like to hang out with.

I remember a clip when he was being interviewed after Jay Cutler finally beat him for the Olympia title. The interviewer tried like hell to get Ronnie to say something negative about Jay winning ; either about the judging, politics involved, Jay's condition. etc. etc. and Ronnie wouldn't bite.

He continued to praise Jay, saying he truly deserved to win, won fair and square and it was his time.

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hit4me

Florida, USA

Crotalus wrote:
I didn't see the documentary but knew about Ronnie in this condition. As it is in all of sports, many of the top champs later on show the wear, tear and damage being the best has cost them. But I'd say this is one of the things that set them apart ... willing to do what ever it takes ... and sometimes they go too far. Same goes for some boxers, football players and hockey players.

I always loved Ronnie's training clips and just he seemed to be a fun guy you'd like to hang out with.

I remember a clip when he was being interviewed after Jay Cutler finally beat him for the Olympia title. The interviewer tried like hell to get Ronnie to say something negative about Jay winning ; either about the judging, politics involved, Jay's condition. etc. etc. and Ronnie wouldn't bite.

He continued to praise Jay, saying he truly deserved to win, won fair and square and it was his time.



boxers, football players and hockey players risk the high chance of being hit, especially in the head....
it does not have to be this way with professional bodybuilders and should not be this way with professional bodybuilders....its too late to turn that clock back
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StuKE

Crotalus wrote:
I didn't see the documentary but knew about Ronnie in this condition. As it is in all of sports, many of the top champs later on show the wear, tear and damage being the best has cost them. But I'd say this is one of the things that set them apart ... willing to do what ever it takes ... and sometimes they go too far. Same goes for some boxers, football players and hockey players.

I always loved Ronnie's training clips and just he seemed to be a fun guy you'd like to hang out with.

I remember a clip when he was being interviewed after Jay Cutler finally beat him for the Olympia title. The interviewer tried like hell to get Ronnie to say something negative about Jay winning ; either about the judging, politics involved, Jay's condition. etc. etc. and Ronnie wouldn't bite.

He continued to praise Jay, saying he truly deserved to win, won fair and square and it was his time.



Yeah, I'm not a fan of bodybuilding (as in posing) really but Ronnie seems a nice guy and I enjoyed the documentary.

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cokerat

The other day I was watching an interview on YouTube with Dorian Yates. He was talking about Ronnie Coleman and the mistakes he made in regards to the weight used in Squats and deadlifts. He then went on to mention Mike Mentzer and the back problems he had later in life due to the weights used in squatting and deadlifting.

Then he dropped the Bomb.

He said Mike had told him in conversation that the biggest regret he had in bodybuilding was including the squat and deadlift. He said that if he could have his time back, he never would have done them.

I felt a little betrayed inside when I heard this because I pushed myself real hard on both of these for years at Mike?s urging. And while I don?t have any major back problems, I do have nagging little pains in my lower back from time to time that I know came from pushing too hard in those exercises. Too heavy to fast! I don?t blame it all on him of course, it?s ultimately my fault. But I sure wish he would have conveyed his concerns with these exercises a lot more than he did because I probably wouldn?t have pushed anywhere near as hard as I did on them. Especially as I?ve gotten older and figured out that they?re really not that important in regards to building a respectable physique.
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Ray200

cokerat wrote:
The other day I was watching an interview on YouTube with Dorian Yates. He was talking about Ronnie Coleman and the mistakes he made in regards to the weight used in Squats and deadlifts. He then went on to mention Mike Mentzer and the back problems he had later in life due to the weights used in squatting and deadlifting.

Then he dropped the Bomb.

He said Mike had told him in conversation that the biggest regret he had in bodybuilding was including the squat and deadlift. He said that if he could have his time back, he never would have done them.

I felt a little betrayed inside when I heard this because I pushed myself real hard on both of these for years at Mike?s urging. And while I don?t have any major back problems, I do have nagging little pains in my lower back from time to time that I know came from pushing too hard in those exercises. Too heavy to fast! I don?t blame it all on him of course, it?s ultimately my fault. But I sure wish he would have conveyed his concerns with these exercises a lot more than he did because I probably wouldn?t have pushed anywhere near as hard as I did on them. Especially as I?ve gotten older and figured out that they?re really not that important in regards to building a respectable physique.


I can empathise with the Squat and Deadlift comment. Now hit 40 and wondering if I need to continue with either exercise. Hip Belt Squats and Sumo Deads are my go-to exercises but the inability to load the former and just gradual suspicion of the latter are problems. I'm back to squatting but it never feels right. I've ordered a safety squat bar to see if that might help my technique. It did in my last gym.
Incidentally, re Mentzer: my late teens and early 20s were spent in adherence to all that is Heavy Duty. I never gained any strength or muscle following any of his routines. Equally, reading people on this and other boards who were clients of his I am not in the minority. I get the feeling that he was either a well-intentioned delusional or a hypocrite no different to the "hucksters" he purported to hold in contempt. He did seem to be someone who was giving of his time but the results ...
Still, it was my own ignorance to do HD and my own stupidity to continue with it for so long so I've no one to blame but myself.

Cheers,
Ray
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Bastion

cokerat wrote:
The other day I was watching an interview on YouTube with Dorian Yates. He was talking about Ronnie Coleman and the mistakes he made in regards to the weight used in Squats and deadlifts. He then went on to mention Mike Mentzer and the back problems he had later in life due to the weights used in squatting and deadlifting.

Then he dropped the Bomb.

He said Mike had told him in conversation that the biggest regret he had in bodybuilding was including the squat and deadlift. He said that if he could have his time back, he never would have done them.

I felt a little betrayed inside when I heard this because I pushed myself real hard on both of these for years at Mike?s urging. And while I don?t have any major back problems, I do have nagging little pains in my lower back from time to time that I know came from pushing too hard in those exercises. Too heavy to fast! I don?t blame it all on him of course, it?s ultimately my fault. But I sure wish he would have conveyed his concerns with these exercises a lot more than he did because I probably wouldn?t have pushed anywhere near as hard as I did on them. Especially as I?ve gotten older and figured out that they?re really not that important in regards to building a respectable physique.


I fought with the squat and variations of it with my 6"2 height and long torso. I did it simply because everything I read from Mcrobert and the hardginer camp as well as Mike Mentzer and every other bodybuilder on earth said squatting is a must. I even have Olympic shoes and Randall Stroessen's Super Squats book. I remember trying to somehow turn trap bar deadlifts into squats. I think the only thing squats did was beat the shit out of me. My back and glutes got trained hard, I had zero leg development until I finally bought myself a leg press , seated leg curl and extension machines. My legs are now my strongest and best bodyparts.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

I felt a little betrayed inside when I heard this because I pushed myself real hard on both of these for years at Mike?s urging. And while I don?t have any major back problems, I do have nagging little pains in my lower back from time to time that I know came from pushing too hard in those exercises. Too heavy to fast! I don?t blame it all on him of course, it?s ultimately my fault.

==Scott==
It's interesting how often I hear someone say something to the effect that I wish I hadn't wasted years doing this routine or I wish I'd not listened to so and so about doing squats or dead lifts or over head behind the neck presses or whatever.What might work for one person may be totally wrong for another.The basic exercises have been out there forever and it shouldn't take you long to determine if something works for you or it doesn't. Oh Mentzer said do squats or Mentzer said stand on your head while doing reverse curls so that's what I'm going to do!! .If you've got any intuition you should be able to quickly feel if squats or whatever works for you. It really means nothing if Mentzer or Coleman or Buzz Aldrin did squats , if you don't feel right doing them , don't do them!!
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Ray200

When people are young and impressionable it's a given that they will follow the advice of those in the musclemags. Gradually, like I assume most of those you seem to criticise in the above posts, we learn from it and move on. No big deal. You still seem to be stuck in a bizarre time warp of the adolescent gym goer: I only want big arms, lots of curls will do it, don't train legs (!). Your "inconsistent training" reads to me as synonymous with someone who follows every new approach to muscle building and neglects the basics: do concentration curls with this new twist and add half an inch per workout. "Stronger than the average" yet in your best condition you could barely do half a dozen chins at only 180lbs. Rank beginner level. You did deadlifts but hurt your back so never did them again. Did it occur to you that your technique might be flawed? Perhaps you chose the wrong variant? No? You don't do squats because of a sore knee (?). Clearly a visit to the GP wasn't part of the deal. What exactly do you do that would be productive? Name me a bodybuilder who got big without deads, squats, clean, row, presses?
I think you need to ease up. Every post seems to be laden with contempt for others.

Hugs 'n' kisses,
Ray
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StuKE

I know plenty of older people with bad joints who dis not get them through lifting heavy, or wven exercise. I know younger people who have them, again, not exercise related. I know people who lift relatively heavy and no joint trouble. I squatged relatively heavy (ie, low reps to just short of failure for years, they did not cause knee trouble, but a few sessions of thai boxing caused me to have knee trouble (particularly a bad block).
In fact most older people I know have some joint issues and generally it is not from exercise.
The point is, even if you don't train heavy, you could well end up with bad joints.

Personally, I really like doing squats (in a way) but I am gravitating towards less squats and more one legged squats etc with no load on my shoulders.
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Crotalus

The one thing about getting injured while bodybuilding, strength training, powerlifting, etc. ... anything to do with weights ... is a lot of people will jump all over you about it ;

" See, I KNEW you were going to get hurt lifting those damn weights - that's why I never did it ! "

When someone breaks a leg skiing, tears something playing football, gets hit in the face with a bad hop in baseball or tendonitis playing tennis it's .....

" Gee, that's too bad, Buddy. But you hang in there, you'll be up and at again in no time " !
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StuKE

Crotalus wrote:
The one thing about getting injured while bodybuilding, strength training, powerlifting, etc. ... anything to do with weights ... is a lot of people will jump all over you about it ;

" See, I KNEW you were going to get hurt lifting those damn weights - that's why I never did it ! "

When someone breaks a leg skiing, tears something playing football, gets hit in the face with a bad hop in baseball or tendonitis playing tennis it's .....

" Gee, that's too bad, Buddy. But you hang in there, you'll be up and at again in no time " !


Yep. I think sports like football are way more likely to injure you than the weights.
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HeavyHitter32

StuKE wrote:

Yep. I think sports like football are way more likely to injure you than the weights.


I have a friend of mine who played football and wrestled for all four years in high school. Every joint in his body was an issue by the time he graduated.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Ray200 wrote:
When people are young and impressionable it's a given that they will follow the advice of those in the musclemags. Gradually, like I assume most of those you seem to criticise in the above posts, we learn from it and move on. No big deal. You still seem to be stuck in a bizarre time warp of the adolescent gym goer: I only want big arms, lots of curls will do it, don't train legs (!). Your "inconsistent training" reads to me as synonymous with someone who follows every new approach to muscle building and neglects the basics: do concentration curls with this new twist and add half an inch per workout. "Stronger than the average" yet in your best condition you could barely do half a dozen chins at only 180lbs. Rank beginner level. You did deadlifts but hurt your back so never did them again. Did it occur to you that your technique might be flawed? Perhaps you chose the wrong variant? No? You don't do squats because of a sore knee (?). Clearly a visit to the GP wasn't part of the deal. What exactly do you do that would be productive? Name me a bodybuilder who got big without deads, squats, clean, row, presses?
I think you need to ease up. Every post seems to be laden with contempt for others.

Hugs 'n' kisses,
Ray


==Scott==
Quite the contrary I hardly ever change my routine. Long ago I found what I like and I have stuck with it.I've roughly done something like Laterals/Scott press, pullover,rows, pulldowns, double chest press, curls/tricep ext and free weight squats or erg in one form or another for 2 sets of 6--15 reps. Early on I did squats and dead lifts and I found my legs and glutes responded to well and out grew my upper body . I hated that look.I stopped the squats and substituted them with leg press/extensions.At one point I got into Cycle racing and my powerful legs really helped there. I was near the top very quickly.Bike wrecks nearly breaking my back ended that.Name a bodybuilder that got big with out squats and deadlifts? Most anyone Gironda trained. Don Howorth. You are right, I do get a little down on people , sometimes they deserve it and sometimes they don't.I get tired of the BS I keep seeing and there's alot on here.
Lats have always been my weak point even after specializing on them so naturally my chins suck plus I never used to try them.I'm just trying them again after many years not doing so. So my half a dozen chins was rank beginner, you must be able to do a load more?? How many??
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StuKE

entsminger wrote:
Ray200 wrote:
When people are young and impressionable it's a given that they will follow the advice of those in the musclemags. Gradually, like I assume most of those you seem to criticise in the above posts, we learn from it and move on. No big deal. You still seem to be stuck in a bizarre time warp of the adolescent gym goer: I only want big arms, lots of curls will do it, don't train legs (!). Your "inconsistent training" reads to me as synonymous with someone who follows every new approach to muscle building and neglects the basics: do concentration curls with this new twist and add half an inch per workout. "Stronger than the average" yet in your best condition you could barely do half a dozen chins at only 180lbs. Rank beginner level. You did deadlifts but hurt your back so never did them again. Did it occur to you that your technique might be flawed? Perhaps you chose the wrong variant? No? You don't do squats because of a sore knee (?). Clearly a visit to the GP wasn't part of the deal. What exactly do you do that would be productive? Name me a bodybuilder who got big without deads, squats, clean, row, presses?
I think you need to ease up. Every post seems to be laden with contempt for others.

Hugs 'n' kisses,
Ray

==Scott==
Quite the contrary I hardly ever change my routine. Long ago I found what I like and I have stuck with it.I've roughly done something like Laterals/Scott press, pullover,rows, pulldowns, double chest press, curls/tricep ext and free weight squats or erg in one form or another for 2 sets of 6--15 reps. Early on I did squats and dead lifts and I found my legs and glutes responded to well and out grew my upper body . I hated that look.I stopped the squats and substituted them with leg press/extensions.At one point I got into Cycle racing and my powerful legs really helped there. I was near the top very quickly.Bike wrecks nearly breaking my back ended that.Name a bodybuilder that got big with out squats and deadlifts? Most anyone Gironda trained. Don Howorth. You are right, I do get a little down on people , sometimes they deserve it and sometimes they don't.I get tired of the BS I keep seeing and there's alot on here.
Lats have always been my weak point even after specializing on them so naturally my chins suck plus I never used to try them.I'm just trying them again after many years not doing so. So my half a dozen chins was rank beginner, you must be able to do a load more?? How many??


Good post.
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Ray200


==Scott==
Quite the contrary I hardly ever change my routine. Long ago I found what I like and I have stuck with it.I've roughly done something like Laterals/Scott press, pullover,rows, pulldowns, double chest press, curls/tricep ext and free weight squats or erg in one form or another for 2 sets of 6--15 reps. Early on I did squats and dead lifts and I found my legs and glutes responded to well and out grew my upper body . I hated that look.I stopped the squats and substituted them with leg press/extensions.At one point I got into Cycle racing and my powerful legs really helped there. I was near the top very quickly.Bike wrecks nearly breaking my back ended that.Name a bodybuilder that got big with out squats and deadlifts? Most anyone Gironda trained. Don Howorth. You are right, I do get a little down on people , sometimes they deserve it and sometimes they don't.I get tired of the BS I keep seeing and there's alot on here.
Lats have always been my weak point even after specializing on them so naturally my chins suck plus I never used to try them.I'm just trying them again after many years not doing so. So my half a dozen chins was rank beginner, you must be able to do a load more?? How many??


Sites can always be frustrating places, trolling, general exaggeration etc etc. I tend to regard it with bafflement more than anything, but some of your recent posts I thought focused too much on the negative. You just need to sort the wheat from the chaff. There are nuggets here if you consider them.
The previous posts were just a few comments re wasted years. It's happened to all of us. Poor exercise selection, routines or nutrition. I simply objected to the tone. The "basic exercises" have indeed been "out there forever" but as a noobie with little to guide you but bodybuilding dross from the magazines, it's very easy to get sidetracked and question your own application rather than the original advice. Do you think your "intuition" served you well? Not a criticism but an honest question? Self-analysis might be a better term. Do you feel you were capable of better results at chins? I'm sure you could have done more than your PR. What stopped you? Over, what, 4 decades of lifting do you not think that you accrued enough knowledge to lift significantly more than you did? Do you feel you chose "what you liked" as opposed to what would have served you best?
Gironda, one of the greatest figures in bodybuilding history but drug-using genetic freaks like Scott, Wayne, Howarth and Makkaway are not good examples to cite. Besides, Gironda did rate Squats: provided you have the build to do them.
As for myself, I'm no great shakes. What I know about weightlifting you can put on the back of a stamp and have room for another stamp. My only plus is that I know what works for me. But it took a lot of trial and error to find it. Gym fails, I've done them all. My main strength is in rowing and I haven't done standard chins in years. I currently use Olympic rings. On Monday, at a bodyweight of 89kg (just weighed myself and I'm not as heavy as I thought but still carrying too much fat) I did 4 sets of 10 with a 5kg plate immediately following some Cleans. These were all pretty much FROM. Of course, this means jack without a video so take it for what it is.
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sgb2112

Pull up motivation..

https://youtu.be/MIMLYgLKRjw
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Ray200

sgb2112 wrote:
Pull up motivation..

https://youtu.be/...YgLKRjw


Great clips!
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StuKE

Ok, I'm going to throw this video into the mix. Pretty embarrassing now, what with the over dramatic music etc, but what the hell, it is just a bit of fun now. There are a few other chin up base videos on here. Anyway, make of it what you will hahaha!

https://youtu.be/naEAvTC65VU
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Crotalus

Ray200 wrote:

My only plus is that I know what works for me. But it took a lot of trial and error to find it.


Yeah, most of us eventually get to this point ... just takes so damn long. My regret would be not acting sooner on my gut feelings of what would be better for me. What I felt would be better went against principles in the HIT Rule Book. I was just TOO dedicated ( aka Rock Headed ) to the HIT philosophy to try something a little different for years and years ...

=====

Wow, 4 X 10 chins are impressive. Pullups always were a tough one for me. I'm trying Turpins suggestion of multiple sets of lower reps. My problem was one set of 10-12 would leave me me with only being able to do about 4 -5 and 2 - 3 for the next two sets.

For your 4 X 10 , how much rest between those sets ??

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Ray200 wrote:

==Scott==
Quite the contrary I hardly ever change my routine. Long ago I found what I like and I have stuck with it.I've roughly done something like Laterals/Scott press, pullover,rows, pulldowns, double chest press, curls/tricep ext and free weight squats or erg in one form or another for 2 sets of 6--15 reps. Early on I did squats and dead lifts and I found my legs and glutes responded to well and out grew my upper body . I hated that look.I stopped the squats and substituted them with leg press/extensions.At one point I got into Cycle racing and my powerful legs really helped there. I was near the top very quickly.Bike wrecks nearly breaking my back ended that.Name a bodybuilder that got big with out squats and deadlifts? Most anyone Gironda trained. Don Howorth. You are right, I do get a little down on people , sometimes they deserve it and sometimes they don't.I get tired of the BS I keep seeing and there's alot on here.
Lats have always been my weak point even after specializing on them so naturally my chins suck plus I never used to try them.I'm just trying them again after many years not doing so. So my half a dozen chins was rank beginner, you must be able to do a load more?? How many??

Sites can always be frustrating places, trolling, general exaggeration etc etc. I tend to regard it with bafflement more than anything, but some of your recent posts I thought focused too much on the negative. You just need to sort the wheat from the chaff. There are nuggets here if you consider them.
The previous posts were just a few comments re wasted years. It's happened to all of us. Poor exercise selection, routines or nutrition. I simply objected to the tone. The "basic exercises" have indeed been "out there forever" but as a noobie with little to guide you but bodybuilding dross from the magazines, it's very easy to get sidetracked and question your own application rather than the original advice. Do you think your "intuition" served you well? Not a criticism but an honest question? Self-analysis might be a better term. Do you feel you were capable of better results at chins? I'm sure you could have done more than your PR. What stopped you? Over, what, 4 decades of lifting do you not think that you accrued enough knowledge to lift significantly more than you did? Do you feel you chose "what you liked" as opposed to what would have served you best?
Gironda, one of the greatest figures in bodybuilding history but drug-using genetic freaks like Scott, Wayne, Howarth and Makkaway are not good examples to cite. Besides, Gironda did rate Squats: provided you have the build to do them.
As for myself, I'm no great shakes. What I know about weightlifting you can put on the back of a stamp and have room for another stamp. My only plus is that I know what works for me. But it took a lot of trial and error to find it. Gym fails, I've done them all. My main strength is in rowing and I haven't done standard chins in years. I currently use Olympic rings. On Monday, at a bodyweight of 89kg (just weighed myself and I'm not as heavy as I thought but still carrying too much fat) I did 4 sets of 10 with a 5kg plate immediately following some Cleans. These were all pretty much FROM. Of course, this means jack without a video so take it for what it is.


==Scott==
For some reason I never was interested in doing chins so I Never did them . I did tons of heavy pulldowns though but those don?t seem to help with chins. In high school they called me muscles and everyone figured I could bench a ton because I looked strong. Other kids were benching 350 and 400 and they thought I could do that as well. At best I could only do 270. I looked strong but wasn?t, at least compared to the school bench club. I kept working out and about 30 years I was in my best shape ever . I did HIT and triathlons and marathons. I looked pretty good for my genetics then one day a friend mentioned I had no lats and after closely examining myself he was right. My back sucked. Probalbly why I stunk at swimming during triathlons . I guess you never see yourself for what you really are. From about 16 to my 30s I was Mr Health food and ate very healthy. I ate enough brewers yeast to kill a horse, ha ha. I eventually found all the protein supplements , amino acids etc etc just drained my wallet and was good for my health but didn?t help gaining muscle at all. I found I didn?t need all that ton of protein I was consuming. As the years passed I got married, had a kid etc etc and muscle suddenly wasn?t so important as in the past and workouts became low priority . I did work out but not with the earlier Mentzer type obsession. Then about 12 -15 years ago if found I could pick up Nautilus machines-for next to nothing and I had always wanted them! I bought a whole bunch and got my enthusiasm back and went nuts working out on them. Then about 6 -7 years ago I got cancer and the chemo really knocked me in the head so now I?m trying to make a slow comeback and on my bucket list I put down to do 10 chins before I kick the bucket. Well it?s really going slow and so far I can?t do one damn chin. My workouts are going great. I feel good but actual gains are non existent . I?m slowly coming back to some of the weights I used to use before the cancer but it?s at a snails pace and frankly it?s more for feeling now than anything . I just love that pumped up feeling and how much I lift seems irrelevant.
Oh yea,I forgot I also substitute dips in for tricep/ chest press . I think I was blessed with pretty good genetics , not great but not bad. Had I stayed focused on training all these years I might have built up to a 17 inch arm but other things in life took priority. When you face death from cancer building big muscles suddenly loses its importance. Well It seems I might have a few years left yet so the challenge now is to regain some of my former not so great physique, ha ha!
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Ray200


==Scott==
For some reason I never was interested in doing chins so I Never did them . I did tons of heavy pulldowns though but those don?t seem to help with chins. In high school they called me muscles and everyone figured I could bench a ton because I looked strong. Other kids were benching 350 and 400 and they thought I could do that as well. At best I could only do 270. I looked strong but wasn?t, at least compared to the school bench club. I kept working out and about 30 years I was in my best shape ever . I did HIT and triathlons and marathons. I looked pretty good for my genetics then one day a friend mentioned I had no lats and after closely examining myself he was right. My back sucked. Probalbly why I stunk at swimming during triathlons . I guess you never see yourself for what you really are. From about 16 to my 30s I was Mr Health food and ate very healthy. I ate enough brewers yeast to kill a horse, ha ha. I eventually found all the protein supplements , amino acids etc etc just drained my wallet and was good for my health but didn?t help gaining muscle at all. I found I didn?t need all that ton of protein I was consuming. As the years passed I got married, had a kid etc etc and muscle suddenly wasn?t so important as in the past and workouts became low priority . I did work out but not with the earlier Mentzer type obsession. Then about 12 -15 years ago if found I could pick up Nautilus machines-for next to nothing and I had always wanted them! I bought a whole bunch and got my enthusiasm back and went nuts working out on them. Then about 6 -7 years ago I got cancer and the chemo really knocked me in the head so now I?m trying to make a slow comeback and on my bucket list I put down to do 10 chins before I kick the bucket. Well it?s really going slow and so far I can?t do one damn chin. My workouts are going great. I feel good but actual gains are non existent . I?m slowly coming back to some of the weights I used to use before the cancer but it?s at a snails pace and frankly it?s more for feeling now than anything . I just love that pumped up feeling and how much I lift seems irrelevant.
Oh yea,I forgot I also substitute dips in for tricep/ chest press . I think I was blessed with pretty good genetics , not great but not bad. Had I stayed focused on training all these years I might have built up to a 17 inch arm but other things in life took priority. When you face death from cancer building big muscles suddenly loses its importance. Well It seems I might have a few years left yet so the challenge now is to regain some of my former not so great physique, ha ha!


I vaguely recall photos you posted of you in your teens or early 20s. You had the genetics and a 270lbs Bench in high school is exceptional. A great base to build on. Chins are such a fundamental part of training I wonder why you avoided them? For me, my back was always easy to train. Perhaps that's why my rowing and chinning are so far ahead of my pressing: the noobie mentality is still there and I build on what I'm good at at the expense of my weakness. I'm gradually moving to strongman training now--heavy sandbag carries, tyre flips etc--but still have this residual attraction to HIT. It's what set the ball rolling.
Dips: great choice.
I know you've had a bad time of things recently, so to still be training is incredible. Start a log. It would be different to most others. I know also you said you had success with Bioforce's 30/20/10 routine. I would look into this again and increase the volume and rest times and avoid failure. Anathema to HIT I know and maybe not something you'd like to do. Perhaps we gravitate to what instinctively we like as opposed to sometimes what we should be doing.
Speaking of Bioforce, his comment that in your late 50s or 60s MAINTAINING muscle can be considered progress is one I agree with. PRs may be difficult but I seem to recall some research (sic) that stated you can still hit PRs well into your 50s, even if you're an experienced lifter. Body composition is another matter.
I suppose the gist of my response is, well, we all mess up and waste time. I did Mentzer-style HD for 2 years or so (?). 2 years! The penny never dropped. Mentzer was a former professional bodybuilder and trainer and I was a 135lb 18 year-old who thought you got big arms by doing curls, big shoulders by doing lateral raises and legs: hmm, maybe the odd leg extension or leg curl. Who was I to argue? Any error must be by me.
Ronnie Coleman at least got it right with his comment on the longevity required--even with drugs and great genetics--to get to an 800x2 squat. Unfortunately he avoided the pitfalls along the way.

Cheers,
Ray
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Ray200

Crotalus wrote:
Ray200 wrote:

My only plus is that I know what works for me. But it took a lot of trial and error to find it.

Yeah, most of us eventually get to this point ... just takes so damn long. My regret would be not acting sooner on my gut feelings of what would be better for me. What I felt would be better went against principles in the HIT Rule Book. I was just TOO dedicated ( aka Rock Headed ) to the HIT philosophy to try something a little different for years and years ...

=====

Wow, 4 X 10 chins are impressive. Pullups always were a tough one for me. I'm trying Turpins suggestion of multiple sets of lower reps. My problem was one set of 10-12 would leave me me with only being able to do about 4 -5 and 2 - 3 for the next two sets.

For your 4 X 10 , how much rest between those sets ??



Hi C,
I wrote about my chinning in an earlier thread. Maybe Stuke's? But, like there, I should mention the "lies, damn lies and statistics" dictum. Turpin can do 5x10 from a dead-hang with a pronated grip. I weigh more but there's no chance I could match that. The Olympic rings I use seem to be easier than either a pronated or supinated grip too. Maybe easier is wrong, but more comfortable anyway. Also, I do my chins in a loft and recently managed to attach a steel bar to the roof which allowed me to increase my ROM. I can now hang to full extension but not quite able to get all the way up before I hit the roof. Probably c.90 percent FROM is nearer the mark. I also take a whopping 4-5 mins rest between sets. Take all that into account and my 4x10 with BW plus plate is not quite as impressive.
Pavel Tsatsouline does a lot of writing on chins. I checked an old article he wrote on Clarence Bass's website on "ladders". Not sure if I'd be allowed to link it but it mentions that the Soviet Special Forces (of which Pavel was a member) had to be able to do 18 dead hang pull-ups with a 10kg bullet-proof vest. His routine is actually fun to do, especially if you have a training partner for a bit of competition. A bit different than straight sets. I tried it and it did work, but I began chinning every workout too, and not just on back day, so the increased frequency will have been a factor. But if your chinning is stuck, and you can find the time, I'd look into it. It might be perfect for you as it limits going to all-out failure.

Cheers,
Ray
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