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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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'Functional Training and HIT'
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Turpin wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
in spite of all the hype about Functional Training, you know that some new trainer or new exerciser looks at it and says, there is no way I'm having Grandma swing a kettlebell or flip a tire. Unfortunately, unless they already know HIT, there is no readily available alternative.



Absolute nonsense ! ? Are you saying that those two extremes are all there is ? Or that one must know HIT to offer any machine based ( or even any sensible free weight ) training routine ?

T.


"Absolute nonsense": same to you. Aside from looking for a fight, how did you put these words together?
The part you refer to is pretty clear I'm writing towards the new exercise grad, or newly certified trainer, or the non-exerciser who drops out of health clubs every year, all of whom are barraged with "Functional Training" hype and absolutely zero about Darden style weight training.
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Turpin

Bill De Simone wrote:
Turpin wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
in spite of all the hype about Functional Training, you know that some new trainer or new exerciser looks at it and says, there is no way I'm having Grandma swing a kettlebell or flip a tire. Unfortunately, unless they already know HIT, there is no readily available alternative.



Absolute nonsense ! ? Are you saying that those two extremes are all there is ? Or that one must know HIT to offer any machine based ( or even any sensible free weight ) training routine ?

T.

"Absolute nonsense": same to you. Aside from looking for a fight, how did you put these words together?
The part you refer to is pretty clear I'm writing towards the new exercise grad, or newly certified trainer, or the non-exerciser who drops out of health clubs every year, all of whom are barraged with "Functional Training" hype and absolutely zero about Darden style weight training.


You claim there is `no alternative` .. of course there is. Perhaps it is your closed mind OR bias that is not permitting you to see that.

T.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

I'll see if Simon can post samples from the actual videos. Most of these show standard exercises, first with stable postures, then with instability, then side by side to see the difference. The text explains why doing them with unstable postures leads to joint issues.

==Scott==
I think I understand standard exercises and how done one way can open one up to injuries far easier than another way by poor posture, leaning or whatever. I just figured by what you said earlier than now days people for whatever reason want something other than the standard safe and congruent exercise like medicine ball throwing or Scott presses while riding a unicycle backwards and you might have a few of those that could be added to a safe workout and performed safely?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Well, I'm not going to rewrite all of it here, if that's what you're looking for.
And it's a course, not a book.

I'll see if Simon can post samples from the actual videos.

==Scott==
All I'm looking for is to understand what you are trying to say.I think what you have to say can be very good but at times can also be a little hard to understand and who is this Simon you are referring too as if it's someone other than you? Simon and Garfunkel? ha ha
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Gainz

Looks like we've managed to venture from one extreme to another on the site recently - from the 'Simplicity' thread to this incomprehensible babble. At the end of the day, there is a lot to be said for "just lift the f**king weight!!!"
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Turpin wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
Turpin wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
in spite of all the hype about Functional Training, you know that some new trainer or new exerciser looks at it and says, there is no way I'm having Grandma swing a kettlebell or flip a tire. Unfortunately, unless they already know HIT, there is no readily available alternative.



Absolute nonsense ! ? Are you saying that those two extremes are all there is ? Or that one must know HIT to offer any machine based ( or even any sensible free weight ) training routine ?

T.

"Absolute nonsense": same to you. Aside from looking for a fight, how did you put these words together?
The part you refer to is pretty clear I'm writing towards the new exercise grad, or newly certified trainer, or the non-exerciser who drops out of health clubs every year, all of whom are barraged with "Functional Training" hype and absolutely zero about Darden style weight training.

You claim there is `no alternative` .. of course there is. Perhaps it is your closed mind OR bias that is not permitting you to see that.

T.



Ok, I got it, you're just looking to troll. You can declare victory, because I won't bother with any of your posts. Thanks for the input.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

entsminger wrote:
I'll see if Simon can post samples from the actual videos. Most of these show standard exercises, first with stable postures, then with instability, then side by side to see the difference. The text explains why doing them with unstable postures leads to joint issues.

==Scott==
I think I understand standard exercises and how done one way can open one up to injuries far easier than another way by poor posture, leaning or whatever. I just figured by what you said earlier than now days people for whatever reason want something other than the standard safe and congruent exercise like medicine ball throwing or Scott presses while riding a unicycle backwards and you might have a few of those that could be added to a safe workout and performed safely?


Well, when you put it that way, yes exactly.
NO. Stupid human tricks are still stupid human tricks. I'm talking about what Hutchins used to call "form discrepancies", only I explained why shoulder girdle stability is important, why spinal posture, etc. and explained with the relevant biomechanics and anatomy.

Then, if appropriate, I explain which exercises from physical therapy might be added, if simply saying "use proper form" isn't enough.


Then, then next step beyond that, is the couple of basic, off-machine exercises, why you might include them and how to do them safely.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

==Scott==
All I'm looking for is to understand what you are trying to say.I think what you have to say can be very good but at times can also be a little hard to understand and who is this Simon you are referring too as if it's someone other than you? Simon and Garfunkel? ha ha [/quote]

Yes, Simon is the identity I use to avoid talking about myself in the third person.

Or it might be Simon Shawcross, who put the HITuni website together and offers courses in training. So that makes me Garfunkel, on a winter's day in a cold and dark Dec-November.
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Gainz

Well going by his pics, he represents yet another HIT afficondo with very little in the way of hypertrophy to show for their efforts. At least this particular one isn't carrying and extra 100 lbs of excess andipose tissue.
One of a number of 'gurus' who would be well served by reading The Emperor's New Clothes by Hans Christian Andersen.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Bill De Simone wrote:
entsminger wrote:
I'll see if Simon can post samples from the actual videos. Most of these show standard exercises, first with stable postures, then with instability, then side by side to see the difference. The text explains why doing them with unstable postures leads to joint issues.

==Scott==
I think I understand standard exercises and how done one way can open one up to injuries far easier than another way by poor posture, leaning or whatever. I just figured by what you said earlier than now days people for whatever reason want something other than the standard safe and congruent exercise like medicine ball throwing or Scott presses while riding a unicycle backwards and you might have a few of those that could be added to a safe workout and performed safely?

Well, when you put it that way, yes exactly.
NO. Stupid human tricks are still stupid human tricks. I'm talking about what Hutchins used to call "form discrepancies", only I explained why shoulder girdle stability is important, why spinal posture, etc. and explained with the relevant biomechanics and anatomy.

Then, if appropriate, I explain which exercises from physical therapy might be added, if simply saying "use proper form" isn't enough.


Then, then next step beyond that, is the couple of basic, off-machine exercises, why you might include them and how to do them safely.


==Scott==
I guess it?s sort of the extended version of the kind of stuff you?ve been saying all along?
As a youth I was not the typical exercise nut in that I chose to do my exercises very strict and as safe as possible . Most young folks around me then ( and even now) cheated , heaved, leaned, arched and whatever they could do to move more weight. As I said earlier I would stand there doing my laterals very strict not just because it was safer but more because doing it strict worked the delts a whole lot better than throwing the weight. These guys would see me slowly raising the weight and sort of laugh at how small the weight was but my delts looked way better than theirs and I wasn?t ripping out my rotor cuffs.
I have mentioned how I gained my best doing things the Bio-Force way of high reps with a cheat. It did work , I had my best gains ever, but I could tell in the long run It would destroy my joints ,etc so I abandoned the style .
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sgb2112

Big fan of Gray cook's functional movement screen.

https://youtu.be/p5yqSZaz4ms
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Turpin

Gainz wrote:
Looks like we've managed to venture from one extreme to another on the site recently - from the 'Simplicity' thread to this incomprehensible babble. At the end of the day, there is a lot to be said for "just lift the f**king weight!!!"


Hurrah ! ? someone said it .

T.
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Landau

Florida, USA

Unfortunately - Some Can, Some Can't - Even with perfect Biomechanics (whatever that is supposed to mean), there is still wear and tear on the System itself. Biomechanics writings certainly can reflect the bias or experiences of the writer of such. Improving function is specific to the daily physical lifestyle of Individuals and the idea of Strength Training is to direct the work towards the body and then hope it applies to one's specific lifestyle endeavors - Specificity is the Foundation.
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Average Al

Gainz wrote:
Well going by his pics, he represents yet another HIT afficondo with very little in the way of hypertrophy to show for their efforts. At least this particular one isn't carrying and extra 100 lbs of excess andipose tissue.
One of a number of 'gurus' who would be well served by reading The Emperor's New Clothes by Hans Christian Andersen.


If the appearance of his physique matters to you, look at the Feb 2016 interview he gave on Corporate Warrior. The story includes a photo of him from a bodybuilding competition back in 1996.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Ok, I got it, you're just looking to troll. You can declare victory, because I won't bother with any of your posts. Thanks for the input.

==Scott==
Bill, while I agree with much of what you have to say, when I understand it, I have to disagree with the idea that Turpin is a troll. On this site he's about the farthest thing there is from a troll. He documents and shows just about everything he does. It may be radically different from what "Simon says" ha ha, but it seems to work for him.I think he's actually a terminator with a hyper alloy chassis underneath the skin. He does things that would destroy some of us humans.
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Average Al

Turpin wrote:
Gainz wrote:
Looks like we've managed to venture from one extreme to another on the site recently - from the 'Simplicity' thread to this incomprehensible babble. At the end of the day, there is a lot to be said for "just lift the f**king weight!!!"

Hurrah ! ? someone said it .

T.


Works great until you start accumulating injuries.

Didn't you alter your approach, and start using different exercises after you blew out your back squatting? Why bother with the belt squats and the trap bar dead lifts? Why not just stick with squats and pulls using a straight bar?
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

==Scott==
I guess it?s sort of the extended version of the kind of stuff you?ve been saying all along?
As a youth I was not the typical exercise nut in that I chose to do my exercises very strict and as safe as possible . Most young folks around me then ( and even now) cheated , heaved, leaned, arched and whatever they could do to move more weight. As I said earlier I would stand there doing my laterals very strict not just because it was safer but more because doing it strict worked the delts a whole lot better than throwing the weight. These guys would see me slowly raising the weight and sort of laugh at how small the weight was but my delts looked way better than theirs and I wasn?t ripping out my rotor cuffs.
I have mentioned how I gained my best doing things the Bio-Force way of high reps with a cheat. It did work , I had my best gains ever, but I could tell in the long run It would destroy my joints ,etc so I abandoned the style . [/quote]

Yes.
I also agree that "best gains" probably does require a cheat. Video of Mentzer training shows a much looser form than he described in writing. But as you say, there is a trade-off.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

entsminger wrote:
Ok, I got it, you're just looking to troll. You can declare victory, because I won't bother with any of your posts. Thanks for the input.

==Scott==
Bill, while I agree with much of what you have to say, when I understand it, I have to disagree with the idea that Turpin is a troll. On this site he's about the farthest thing there is from a troll. He documents and shows just about everything he does. It may be radically different from what "Simon says" ha ha, but it seems to work for him.I think he's actually a terminator with a hyper alloy chassis underneath the skin. He does things that would destroy some of us humans.


Well, he's trolling me here. More power to the guys who "just lift". They don't need or want my help. Or anybody else's, for that matter, so other than being trolls, I'm not quite sure why they bother.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Gainz wrote:
Looks like we've managed to venture from one extreme to another on the site recently - from the 'Simplicity' thread to this incomprehensible babble. At the end of the day, there is a lot to be said for "just lift the f**king weight!!!"


Well, you spell "Gainz" with a z, so it may be incomprehensible to you.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Average Al wrote:
Gainz wrote:
Well going by his pics, he represents yet another HIT afficondo with very little in the way of hypertrophy to show for their efforts. At least this particular one isn't carrying and extra 100 lbs of excess andipose tissue.
One of a number of 'gurus' who would be well served by reading The Emperor's New Clothes by Hans Christian Andersen.

If the appearance of his physique matters to you, look at the Feb 2016 interview he gave on Corporate Warrior. The story includes a photo of him from a bodybuilding competition back in 1996.



Thanks Al. The repaired and ruptured biceps and triceps, and the repaired rotator cuff, pretty much means that won't happen again exactly that way.

I'm not worried about guys who are still hung up on their gorilla suit anyway.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Landau wrote:
Unfortunately - Some Can, Some Can't - Even with perfect Biomechanics (whatever that is supposed to mean), there is still wear and tear on the System itself. Biomechanics writings certainly can reflect the bias or experiences of the writer of such. Improving function is specific to the daily physical lifestyle of Individuals and the idea of Strength Training is to direct the work towards the body and then hope it applies to one's specific lifestyle endeavors - Specificity is the Foundation.


Written by the same guy who complained he "couldn't make sense" of an earlier post.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Average Al wrote:
Turpin wrote:
Gainz wrote:
Looks like we've managed to venture from one extreme to another on the site recently - from the 'Simplicity' thread to this incomprehensible babble. At the end of the day, there is a lot to be said for "just lift the f**king weight!!!"

Hurrah ! ? someone said it .

T.

Works great until you start accumulating injuries.

Didn't you alter your approach, and start using different exercises after you blew out your back squatting? Why bother with the belt squats and the trap bar dead lifts? Why not just stick with squats and pulls using a straight bar?


Al: these are not serious comments. It's one thing for someone to read the course and say, Bill, I think you're incorrect on these points and here's why. But what Landau, Gainz (good god) and Turpin, none of whom have read the material (because they already know they hate it and it sucks) are doing is just attacking for sport.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

sgb2112 wrote:
Big fan of Gray cook's functional movement screen.

https://youtu.be/...SZaz4ms


I haven't dipped into it, because I've been more into picking apart the exercises, which most media that covers FT seems to focus on.

How do you personally use his material?
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Gainz

Bill De Simone wrote:
Gainz wrote:
Looks like we've managed to venture from one extreme to another on the site recently - from the 'Simplicity' thread to this incomprehensible babble. At the end of the day, there is a lot to be said for "just lift the f**king weight!!!"

Well, you spell "Gainz" with a z, so it may be incomprehensible to you.


I guess my inability to distinguish between left and right sometimes, could account for my having typed my letter 's' back to front.

I have, however, retained the ability to distinguish between meaningful training information and incomprehensible babble.

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Gainz

Just out of curiosity as well Bill, but have you ever been contacted by hdlifter from this forum?
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