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'Functional Training and HIT'
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Keyser S?

Ellington Darden wrote:
Average Al wrote:
Bill Sekerak wrote:
Landau wrote:
Functional Training being used for ANYTHING is just Plain Stupid

The voice of reason strikes again. Thank you David for that .

So you and David prefer non-functional training? Can you give me an example?

I like the term "indifferent" applied to training. Non-functional training could be labeled indifferent training. In other words, when the activities of practice are unrelated to what happens in competition.

For example, a set of slow, negative-only chins and dips would make your torso and arms bigger and stronger. And doing so would make you a faster swinger of a bat in baseball. Thus, your hitting ability in baseball would improve.

Ellington


If you performed those exercises with the intention of improving swing wouldn't that make it functional training? I thought it did.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Keyser S? wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Average Al wrote:
Bill Sekerak wrote:
Landau wrote:
Functional Training being used for ANYTHING is just Plain Stupid

The voice of reason strikes again. Thank you David for that .

So you and David prefer non-functional training? Can you give me an example?

I like the term "indifferent" applied to training. Non-functional training could be labeled indifferent training. In other words, when the activities of practice are unrelated to what happens in competition.

For example, a set of slow, negative-only chins and dips would make your torso and arms bigger and stronger. And doing so would make you a faster swinger of a bat in baseball. Thus, your hitting ability in baseball would improve.

Ellington


If you performed those exercises with the intention of improving swing wouldn't that make it functional training? I thought it did.


== Scott ==
That?s what I would think.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

== Scott==
So Bill I hate to put it this way but since you only seemed to respond to those questioning your theories in this thread and haven?t responded to my serious questions on chinning congruencies , this post was , as Ralphie says in the Christmas Story ?a crummy commercial? to sell your course???
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Gainz

entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
So Bill I hate to put it this way but since you only seemed to respond to those questioning your theories in this thread and haven?t responded to my serious questions on chinning congruencies , this post was , as Ralphie says in the Christmas Story ?a crummy commercial? to sell your course???


Bill could possibly have recently suffered a training injury which could explain his absence of late.

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AndyMitch

entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
So Bill I hate to put it this way but since you only seemed to respond to those questioning your theories in this thread and haven?t responded to my serious questions on chinning congruencies , this post was , as Ralphie says in the Christmas Story ?a crummy commercial? to sell your course???


Ed Zachery what it is, a commercial.

Bill?s a pussy, but he has had some great ideas and thoughts.

Just like everything use what works for you, dump the rest, pretty simple.

Some people really need to be held by the hand and walked through everything, weight lifting is the opposite of this, work it out yourself and stop bitch?n FFS.
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PTDaniel

Functional training is about training "movements" instead of training specific muscles. How you move is the primary. You don't focus on the development of specific muscles. It often goes hand-in-hand with the pseudoscience of "movement analysis", which claims to be able to detect muscular imbalances (overactive vs. underactive) by how you move when uncoached or how you maintain your posture statically.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Gainz wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
So Bill I hate to put it this way but since you only seemed to respond to those questioning your theories in this thread and haven?t responded to my serious questions on chinning congruencies , this post was , as Ralphie says in the Christmas Story ?a crummy commercial? to sell your course???

Bill could possibly have recently suffered a training injury which could explain his absence of late.



== Scott ==
I guessing when not on camera he trains like Bio- Force but cheats and throws kettle bells and big tractor tires around like an ape in the zoo , he?s not fooling me , ha ha !!
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DSears

I don't want to argue about semantics but does training with the goal of injury prevention considered to be functional training?
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
So Bill I hate to put it this way but since you only seemed to respond to those questioning your theories in this thread and haven?t responded to my serious questions on chinning congruencies , this post was , as Ralphie says in the Christmas Story ?a crummy commercial? to sell your course???

Scott, an off topic question in 7 pages of comments? Start a separate topic.
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA


Bill?s a pussy, but he has had some great ideas and thoughts.

[/quote]

And who the hell are you?
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Gainz

Hi Bill.

It's good to see you back.
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AndyMitch

Bill De Simone wrote:

Bill?s a pussy, but he has had some great ideas and thoughts.



And who the hell are you?


I am no one special
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Bill De Simone wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
So Bill I hate to put it this way but since you only seemed to respond to those questioning your theories in this thread and haven?t responded to my serious questions on chinning congruencies , this post was , as Ralphie says in the Christmas Story ?a crummy commercial? to sell your course???

Scott, an off topic question in 7 pages of comments? Start a separate topic.


=== Scott ==
Oh yes, this thread is going so well I wouldn?t want to throw all this brilliance off with a serious question.
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SWISS-HIT

Let THE MAN do the talk! ;D

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=qBDHa-3Zk_8

Functional training, whatever that is..... is a waste of time and often dangerous.

I mean in a nutshell what we can change when it comes to our bodies?

- Building muscle
- losing fat
- building the heart muscle aka cardio => if you do HIT Training with no pause between the exercises you will do that ;D
-Last but not least:
You can become more skilled aka Coordination which is always very specific thing.

You have to practice that skill 1:1. You want to become better at boxing. Then box. Better at skiing. Then start skiing. More natural muscles will always make you stronger! And the strength endurance will also go up.

They will also make you faster if you train it. By doing the sport specific movements faster, always correct and never to muscular failure. And never ever should you train these specific movents against resistance. Like boxing with weights or with rubber bands etc. This will change the pattern..











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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Functional training, whatever that is..... is a waste of time and often dangerous.

==Scott==
Any time you are throwing big tires or medicine balls around,doing hit on Nautilus machines or even playing hop scotch is a thousand times more productive than siting on your ass at a computer and writing about it.
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SWISS-HIT

Read it in context. I am a HITer.
What i wrote is basically what Jones said way back in 70?s. And it is still true.

If you understand what you actually can change about your body than you will not waste time with stuff which is not only unproductive but also often dangerous.

The irony is that nobody can really explain what functional training is.

Muscle building, cardio, coordination. Do not mix it. My opinion. I believe that athletes would be much better of if they followed this simple rule..
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

SWISS-HIT wrote:
Read it in context. I am a HITer.
What i wrote is basically what Jones said way back in 70?s. And it is still true.

If you understand what you actually can change about your body than you will not waste time with stuff which is not only unproductive but also often dangerous.

The irony is that nobody can really explain what functional training is.

Muscle building, cardio, coordination. Do not mix it. My opinion. I believe that athletes would be much better of if they followed this simple rule..


== Scott ==
Maybe instead of calling it functional training it could be called practical exercises or whatever? Every exercise we do doesn?t have to be clinically safe and contained to a circuit of regimented machines. I like the results to be had from an exercise bike which is safe and sound as you sit and spin but it?s much more fun to be out on the road sailing along with traffic and all the other possible dangers. Which am I going to do? The one that?s more fun. Rolling Big tires and throwing medicine balls etc etc can be fun . Sitting in one contraption after another doing regimented exercises in a gym can be boring as hell. They both can produce positive results . I see no reason to knock one form of exercise over another. If you like it , do it, if you don?t like it don?t do it. People have different likes and just because Jones said something doesn?t mean people are going to stop what they like because of what he thinks, right or wrong and by the way, we?ve all seen everything Jones has said 3000 times. Everything he said is not the gospel!!
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SWISS-HIT

Thing is, this basically a website devoted to HIT training. What do you get from this site if not information about HIT? What do you expect from me?

If you want to flip things in your backyard, would you not be better of on a Crossfit website?

Fun is subjective. I love working out on MedX machines. And i love the results.

Training is about results. And in the long run. It should be healthy.

If training is not about results than it is sports and play. That is ok for me. But I ask you again why are you here?



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hit4me

Florida, USA

entsminger wrote:
SWISS-HIT wrote:
Read it in context. I am a HITer.
What i wrote is basically what Jones said way back in 70?s. And it is still true.

If you understand what you actually can change about your body than you will not waste time with stuff which is not only unproductive but also often dangerous.

The irony is that nobody can really explain what functional training is.

Muscle building, cardio, coordination. Do not mix it. My opinion. I believe that athletes would be much better of if they followed this simple rule..

== Scott ==
Maybe instead of calling it functional training it could be called practical exercises or whatever? Every exercise we do doesn?t have to be clinically safe and contained to a circuit of regimented machines. I like the results to be had from an exercise bike which is safe and sound as you sit and spin but it?s much more fun to be out on the road sailing along with traffic and all the other possible dangers. Which am I going to do? The one that?s more fun. Rolling Big tires and throwing medicine balls etc etc can be fun . Sitting in one contraption after another doing regimented exercises in a gym can be boring as hell. They both can produce positive results . I see no reason to knock one form of exercise over another. If you like it , do it, if you don?t like it don?t do it. People have different likes and just because Jones said something doesn?t mean people are going to stop what they like because of what he thinks, right or wrong and by the way, we?ve all seen everything Jones has said 3000 times. Everything he said is not the gospel!!


people are forgetting what Jones objective was.....weight training without injury to the joints and spine
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

SWISS-HIT wrote:
Thing is, this basically a website devoted to HIT training. What do you get from this site if not information about HIT? What do you expect from me?

If you want to flip things in your backyard, would you not be better of on a Crossfit website?

Fun is subjective. I love working out on MedX machines. And i love the results.

Training is about results. And in the long run. It should be healthy.


== Scott==
This is such an open site that many forms of exercise are discussed, not just a very narrow interpretation of what some people call HIT . Working with high intensity can take Many forms . What do we expect from you? I don?t know that anyone expects anything from you?? Training is done for many reasons. Muscular growth is just one of many reasons to train. If I only trained to see muscular growth results I would have quit 30 years ago.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

hit4me wrote:
entsminger wrote:
SWISS-HIT wrote:
Read it in context. I am a HITer.
What i wrote is basically what Jones said way back in 70?s. And it is still true.

If you understand what you actually can change about your body than you will not waste time with stuff which is not only unproductive but also often dangerous.

The irony is that nobody can really explain what functional training is.

Muscle building, cardio, coordination. Do not mix it. My opinion. I believe that athletes would be much better of if they followed this simple rule..

== Scott ==
Maybe instead of calling it functional training it could be called practical exercises or whatever? Every exercise we do doesn?t have to be clinically safe and contained to a circuit of regimented machines. I like the results to be had from an exercise bike which is safe and sound as you sit and spin but it?s much more fun to be out on the road sailing along with traffic and all the other possible dangers. Which am I going to do? The one that?s more fun. Rolling Big tires and throwing medicine balls etc etc can be fun . Sitting in one contraption after another doing regimented exercises in a gym can be boring as hell. They both can produce positive results . I see no reason to knock one form of exercise over another. If you like it , do it, if you don?t like it don?t do it. People have different likes and just because Jones said something doesn?t mean people are going to stop what they like because of what he thinks, right or wrong and by the way, we?ve all seen everything Jones has said 3000 times. Everything he said is not the gospel!!

people are forgetting what Jones objective was.....weight training without injury to the joints and spine


== Scott ==.

Jones had many objectives and yes this site is the result of much of what he said and Darden agrees with much of it but if you want discussion you can?t just turn to what Jones said many years ago and then say end of discussion. Jones was not the end all or be all of exercise. He had some great ideas and some not so great. He was human and like all humans he made mistakes. We discuss and argue about what we have questions about. Some are his ideas, some others ideas .
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SWISS-HIT

Well writing and talking is not the same. Is it. Many misunderstandings can occur.

My point was from the beginning, by following the discussion, that functional training as it is advertised is a waste of time.

For many reasons:
1. What is functional training and who gets to decide what functional is? What makes it functional?

Just for the record i tried every training method i will mention:
Kettelbells, macebells, clubbells, indian clubs, expanders, isometrics, body weight exercises. Trx the new hottest shi;) Martial arts exercises etc, etc..or flipping things in the backyard;)

the term functional will allways occur when it comes to these training methods.
What makes theses exercises functional? Functional for what would be the better question?

Some will say, well it makes daily things so much easier like carrying crocery bags or lifting the furniture around. That is the prof for functional training....

Now here it comes: why does it get easier? Because it is functional? No because these training methods will build muscle. Lifting requires muscle. The more the easier.

To make the confusion complete i have to mention weightlifters. They also often claim that they train strength. In fact they train feats. Lifts which require muscles working together to lift a heavy barbell above the head=> coordination.

The more muscles they have the easier the lift. Or the more they can lift. Now it happens to be that training these lifts will also build muscle. Therefore they say it is functional.

Lately i had a discussion with such a weighlifter. He sad that the deadlift has a great carryover effect for wrestling because it functional. I said that this total nonsense and showed him this two clips:

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=JpvrVe9GIAk
I think we can agree on that the bodybuilder would outlift the wrestler in the gym.

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=IkkL-bAH8H4
The mountain owns the titel strongest man
Devon is a heavy weight armwrestler world champion.

After that, he understood that coordination is always a very specific thing and has to be trained.
And can not simulated by using weights and mimicking the movements required...

But muscle will make you stronger and will allways be an advantage.

So in a nutshell. In my opinion functional training does not exist. Therefore training for function is a waste of time. And as Jones said: because it often executed in a explosive fashion it is very dangerous.

If you do this training methods because they are more fun for you. I am totally ok with that. They will grow muscle too. Just do not call it functional ;)

Hope that makes it clearer.












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entsminger

Virginia, USA

My point was from the beginning, by following the discussion, that functional training as it is advertised is a waste of time.

For many reasons:
1. What is functional training and who gets to decide what functional is? What makes it functional?

==Scott==
So someone called or labeled something they or someone else was doing as functional training.It's as clear as mud what is actual functional training and to be perfectly honest at this point in this gone on far too long discussion, who the hell cares. Is all this back and forth fuss really worth it to resolve what is functional training and will it ever get resolved here where the only real training is the type Jones promoted? No to both !
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Keyser S?

entsminger wrote:
My point was from the beginning, by following the discussion, that functional training as it is advertised is a waste of time.

For many reasons:
1. What is functional training and who gets to decide what functional is? What makes it functional?

==Scott==
So someone called or labeled something they or someone else was doing as functional training.It's as clear as mud what is actual functional training and to be perfectly honest at this point in this gone on far too long discussion, who the hell cares. Is all this back and forth fuss really worth it to resolve what is functional training and will it ever get resolved here where the only real training is the type Jones promoted? No to both !


I always found that definition of terms was one of the biggest problems on this website.
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Keyser S?

SWISS-HIT wrote:

Functional training, whatever that is..... is a waste of time and often dangerous.



I don't see how you can rightly claim to know something is a waste of time unless you know what it is.

Self evident truth. No?
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