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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

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John Little Wrong on Cardio ?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Chris H wrote:
entsminger wrote:
I know the HIT crowd get somewhat fanatical about wear and tear, but the concern is valid.

==Scott==
Let's just say the HIT crowd is fanatical, ha ha. I know the folks on here won't like this but I think all this arguing about not doing cardio is just a way to justify sitting around on their ass.Oh god, if I ran around the block my knees and joints would all wear out and I'd soon be in a wheel chair. You'll be in one anyway.

i'm not so sure its about justifying siting around on ones arse, but it is about justifying doing what is necessary and required for health rather than performance.


==Scott==
In another thread a bunch of guys here are raving about what Dr. Ken could squat.How many times have I heard that I squatted till I was lying on the carpet? If that's not about performance over health I don't know what is? Health takes a back seat to gains in strength and building muscle on most all these type sites.
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epdavis7

Chris H wrote:
entsminger wrote:
I know the HIT crowd get somewhat fanatical about wear and tear, but the concern is valid.

==Scott==
Let's just say the HIT crowd is fanatical, ha ha. I know the folks on here won't like this but I think all this arguing about not doing cardio is just a way to justify sitting around on their ass.Oh god, if I ran around the block my knees and joints would all wear out and I'd soon be in a wheel chair. You'll be in one anyway.

i'm not so sure its about justifying siting around on ones arse, but it is about justifying doing what is necessary and required for health rather than performance.


Agreed. Some things you do for your health. Other things you do for your enjoyment or out of necessity. These we do at our own risk. I run races for now. I realize there may be wear and tear issues down the road that may force me to stop...hopefully not.
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ptcrusader

All good points. Joint health should not be risked by too much running or improper lifting etc.

But an important issue, as I perceive it, is whether one needs some rhythmic cardio exercise for 10-25 minutes at a time to preserve flexibility in the left ventricle. For the past 10 years, there are many of us who thought the answer was "no." However, many of us have changed our mind a bit based on some of the recent research. For me and anyone who sincerely asks, I do suggest adding to your strength training routine some type of weekly cardio (elliptical, exercise bike or moderate jogging if your joints don't hurt) for the reasons previously suggested. Is this recommendation right? Hindsight is always 20/20 but I know what I will be doing...
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

epdavis7 wrote:
In spite of all this I still think John Little (and Dr McGuff) have valid points. To be healthy, not much is needed from an exercise standpoint. To be an athlete or excel at an activity, much is needed...however this may also damage your long term health and longevity.


==Scott==

To be what is considered healthy no HIT training or any other form of exercise is necessary.Many people are very healthy who never did any exercise but that isn't to say their health might not be enhanced with a sane amount of weight training and aerobic exercise.I would venture to say that there are 10 times as many people who are crippled up and physically miserable who didn't do any real exercise in their life than those that participated in moderate forms of exercise. Now of course there are football players and other extreme athletes who pay the price for their bone crushing injuries and distance runners who grind their bones to saw dust by over doing it, etc etc but lets not confuse the extreme with safe and moderate exercise methods.
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Chris H

entsminger wrote:
Chris H wrote:
entsminger wrote:
I know the HIT crowd get somewhat fanatical about wear and tear, but the concern is valid.

==Scott==
Let's just say the HIT crowd is fanatical, ha ha. I know the folks on here won't like this but I think all this arguing about not doing cardio is just a way to justify sitting around on their ass.Oh god, if I ran around the block my knees and joints would all wear out and I'd soon be in a wheel chair. You'll be in one anyway.

i'm not so sure its about justifying siting around on ones arse, but it is about justifying doing what is necessary and required for health rather than performance.

==Scott==
In another thread a bunch of guys here are raving about what Dr. Ken could squat.How many times have I heard that I squatted till I was lying on the carpet? If that's not about performance over health I don't know what is? Health takes a back seat to gains in strength and building muscle on most all these type sites.


your right. Ken's 407 x 23 in itself is performance based and not healthy if repeated to frequently {even once a week}
One must remember health simply means, freedom from disease. Exercise may or may not factor here, particularly if the envelope is continually pushed in favour of performance or body composition changes.
In my opinion that does not mean that an individual cannot train train for physical improvement, if health is the main concern, but if the main driver is performance, then health will suffer sooner or later.
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epdavis7

Chris H wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Chris H wrote:
entsminger wrote:
I know the HIT crowd get somewhat fanatical about wear and tear, but the concern is valid.

==Scott==
Let's just say the HIT crowd is fanatical, ha ha. I know the folks on here won't like this but I think all this arguing about not doing cardio is just a way to justify sitting around on their ass.Oh god, if I ran around the block my knees and joints would all wear out and I'd soon be in a wheel chair. You'll be in one anyway.

i'm not so sure its about justifying siting around on ones arse, but it is about justifying doing what is necessary and required for health rather than performance.

==Scott==
In another thread a bunch of guys here are raving about what Dr. Ken could squat.How many times have I heard that I squatted till I was lying on the carpet? If that's not about performance over health I don't know what is? Health takes a back seat to gains in strength and building muscle on most all these type sites.

your right. Ken's 407 x 23 in itself is performance based and not healthy if repeated to frequently {even once a week}
One must remember health simply means, freedom from disease. Exercise may or may not factor here, particularly if the envelope is continually pushed in favour of performance or body composition changes.
In my opinion that does not mean that an individual cannot train train for physical improvement, if health is the main concern, but if the main driver is performance, then health will suffer sooner or later.


Its amazing he did that at 53 years of age and 160ish lbs and that was only one exercise in a workout that was similarly crazy.
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Average Al

ptcrusader wrote:
All good points. Joint health should not be risked by too much running or improper lifting etc.

But an important issue, as I perceive it, is whether one needs some rhythmic cardio exercise for 10-25 minutes at a time to preserve flexibility in the left ventricle. For the past 10 years, there are many of us who thought the answer was "no." However, many of us have changed our mind a bit based on some of the recent research. For me and anyone who sincerely asks, I do suggest adding to your strength training routine some type of weekly cardio (elliptical, exercise bike or moderate jogging if your joints don't hurt) for the reasons previously suggested. Is this recommendation right? Hindsight is always 20/20 but I know what I will be doing...


With regard to arterial stiffening: I've seen papers on this, but I'm not sure if it is a big deal or a minor curiosity. In medicine, and in general, if you can measure and quantify something, there will be a tendency to worry about what the numbers mean.

As I have gotten older, my blood pressure has started to creep upward a bit: it has gone from low normal to normal to slightly high of normal. This seems pretty typical of getting older: arteries lose some flexibility and blood pressure rises. But I do wonder if a life time of strength training has contributed to this, or if a lifetime of consistent cardio could have prevented it.

So I have added in a couple of easy sessions on the elliptical every week. The elliptical is easy on my knees and hips; it isn't like I'm going to tear myself apart doing it. The extra activity is probably good for me in general, and likely helps stabilize my blood sugar. I find those extra workouts to be somewhat refreshing. The intensity is low enough that I don't need to worry about the kind of heart damage that extreme duration endurance athletes seem to incur. If it helps my blood pressure, great. If not, it certainly won't hurt me.
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Crotalus

Average Al wrote:

As I have gotten older, my blood pressure has started to creep upward a bit: it has gone from low normal to normal to slightly high of normal.


But what really is 'normal' ? I'd bet BP is more of an individual thing then what they want you to believe.

They lower the 'ideal' numbers every few years I think to get more people onto BP medication. I think the last numbers I heard was it's a $130 billion business.

Couple months ago I went for my annual sleep doctor exam. The tech came up with a crazy BP reading because she used the wrong size cuff.

How many errors like this happen everyday ? BP readings have to be done right and a lot of the time they aren't done carefully enough.




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Average Al

Crotalus wrote:
Average Al wrote:

As I have gotten older, my blood pressure has started to creep upward a bit: it has gone from low normal to normal to slightly high of normal.


But what really is 'normal' ? I'd bet BP is more of an individual thing then what they want you to believe.

They lower the 'ideal' numbers every few years I think to get more people onto BP medication. I think the last numbers I heard was it's a $130 billion business.

Couple months ago I went for my annual sleep doctor exam. The tech came up with a crazy BP reading because she used the wrong size cuff.

How many errors like this happen everyday ? BP readings have to be done right and a lot of the time they aren't done carefully enough.






Those are all valid points. But I am not talking about one or two isolated measurements, but rather a consistent shift upward over a longer span of time.
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epdavis7

My main goal is to be as healthy as I can for as long as I can so I can continue to embarrass my grandchildren. I'm always pulling practical jokes on them and saying things that embarrass them in public. The pull my finger thing never gets old lol.
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