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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Does Time Under Tension Matter?
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Average Al

entsminger wrote:
Average Al wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
I know you guys don?t like to hear this and want to spend hours on end arguing over this stuff but stop over analyzing everything. Time Under tension, full reps, slow or fast reps, half reps, stutter reps, etc etc, the important thing is to hit the weights consistently and from trial and error do what ?you ? feel works your muscles the best . Who cares what Science by Body or McGruff the crime dog or anyone else says. Try many of the different ways you?ve heard on here and if you have half a brain you?ll figure out what works for you and then consistently kick ass doing it.

Your timing is odd, as this thread had pretty much died after just a few comments. In fact the board has been pretty quiet lately as no one is arguing about anything, a situation that should meet with your approval.

As for understanding why things work: it is kind of cool if a theory happens to support a mode of training that you had come to prefer by trial & error. Don?t we all love a dose of confirmation bias now and again?

== Scott ==
I?m all for talking about things but I just think too many people get to thinking I didn?t make progress because my time under tension, or rep cadence , or rep speed or workout frequency or whatever was wrong when more than any of those it?s probably that they aren?t really working hard with what ever they are doing. If you?re kicking Butt when you workout you?ll build muscle to a certain point no matter what you?re doing . No wonder I couldn?t build 21 inch arms, my time under tension was off a little , hah! I don?t think most people know how to really push their muscles hard. There?s no better secret tricks to induce muscles to grow than just plain old gut busting effort be it 30 reps or 6. It?s not so much what you do as how you do it ! I saw Viator train. He trained like his life depended on it, like an animal! While your worring about what you are doing think about how you are doing it. Are you really pushing yourself?


Training all the time with gut busting intensity is certainly one kind of training philosophy, basically the
one Arthur Jones promoted. But as Stuke pointed out, training all out, all the time can also be a prescription for injury and burn out.

In the power lifting community, there are competitive lifters with impressive totals who believe that the bulk of your training volume should be done short of failure, with careful management of fatigue, in order to get in productive amounts of volume.

Those guys likely think that trying to hit gut busting intensity all the time, grinding out every set, is as misguided as obsessing with time under tension.



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entsminger

Virginia, USA

== Scott===
I?m not saying push to you drop kind of nonsense . I never do that . If fact I leave my workouts feeling rejuvenated and energized because I know how to push myself without over doing it. I?ve been to gyms a million times and I see guys pretty much going through the motions. They start to do 10 reps and stop at 10 reps. It?s like they are afraid their muscles might get sore if the pushed to hard? I love that sore muscle feeling but not so sore you have to stop for a week, that?s just dumb. You just need to either push a little harder or change up the routine some the next workout as you muscles get accustomed to a routine very quickly. Slow or fast or some other fancy workout mode isn?t the answer. Just be sure when you do a set of curls or whatever you give it your all but your all is different for everybody. Only you through experience can you know when you?ve done to much or to little. If it takes you a week to recover you either are out of shape or you worked out way to hard or to much or both. If you are just starting it can take weeks to get used to working out but once you are in shape you should feel good after a workout.
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oldbutsteady

Ents,

You old timer with that "common sense" stuff ;)


OBS
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Donnie Hunt

entsminger wrote:
== Scott===
I?m not saying push to you drop kind of nonsense . I never do that . If fact I leave my workouts feeling rejuvenated and energized because I know how to push myself without over doing it. I?ve been to gyms a million times and I see guys pretty much going through the motions. They start to do 10 reps and stop at 10 reps. It?s like they are afraid their muscles might get sore if the pushed to hard? I love that sore muscle feeling but not so sore you have to stop for a week, that?s just dumb. You just need to either push a little harder or change up the routine some the next workout as you muscles get accustomed to a routine very quickly. Slow or fast or some other fancy workout mode isn?t the answer. Just be sure when you do a set of curls or whatever you give it your all but your all is different for everybody. Only you through experience can you know when you?ve done to much or to little. If it takes you a week to recover you either are out of shape or you worked out way to hard or to much or both. If you are just starting it can take weeks to get used to working out but once you are in shape you should feel good after a workout.


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Average Al

entsminger wrote:
== Scott===
I?m not saying push to you drop kind of nonsense . I never do that . If fact I leave my workouts feeling rejuvenated and energized because I know how to push myself without over doing it. I?ve been to gyms a million times and I see guys pretty much going through the motions. They start to do 10 reps and stop at 10 reps. It?s like they are afraid their muscles might get sore if the pushed to hard? I love that sore muscle feeling but not so sore you have to stop for a week, that?s just dumb. You just need to either push a little harder or change up the routine some the next workout as you muscles get accustomed to a routine very quickly. Slow or fast or some other fancy workout mode isn?t the answer. Just be sure when you do a set of curls or whatever you give it your all but your all is different for everybody. Only you through experience can you know when you?ve done to much or to little. If it takes you a week to recover you either are out of shape or you worked out way to hard or to much or both. If you are just starting it can take weeks to get used to working out but once you are in shape you should feel good after a workout.


At the gym I used to train at (pre-pandemic), I would occasionally see guys going through the motions. These were typically old guys in poor shape, and they often looked like they also had joint issues, couldn't use a full range of motion, barely moving 3 inches on pulldowns or presses,etc. It was frustrating to see, because they probably could have gotten a lot more out of the exercises without making much of a change to how they were doing it. Not my problem to solve, however.

But most of the regulars seem to work pretty hard. Now most of those folks didn't make huge amounts of progress either (at least that I could see). But many of them were already big and jacked, much larger and stronger than I will ever be. That tends to happen if you've been lifting for any length of time.

Overall, I don't disagree with your advice. My generic advice is to pick a basic selection of exercises to work the major muscle group, train *progressively* with a moderate amount of volume 2 or 3 times a week, work hard without beating yourself up, use some variety to minimize the chances of overuse injuries. But once you've accomplished that, why not play around a bit with some of the variables. And I see nothing wrong with making some of those tweaks based on what the latest science theories might say.

It sounds great to stick with old school, proven methods. But there is also some silly stuff to be found in those old fitness and body building magazines.

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=nN05QVGo3r0
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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
entsminger wrote:
why not play around a bit with some of the variables. And I see nothing wrong with making some of those tweaks based on what the latest science theories might say.



And - - - yet, I have been constantly criticized for my constantly changing routines.
However, I am the most hated poster here.
Contrarian to the end!


But,

I shot down the anti-cardio crap, and removed the halo off Global Metabolic Conditioning! Just pure Hogwash!

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sirloin

Donnie Hunt wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott===
I?m not saying push to you drop kind of nonsense . I never do that . If fact I leave my workouts feeling rejuvenated and energized because I know how to push myself without over doing it. I?ve been to gyms a million times and I see guys pretty much going through the motions. They start to do 10 reps and stop at 10 reps. It?s like they are afraid their muscles might get sore if the pushed to hard? I love that sore muscle feeling but not so sore you have to stop for a week, that?s just dumb. You just need to either push a little harder or change up the routine some the next workout as you muscles get accustomed to a routine very quickly. Slow or fast or some other fancy workout mode isn?t the answer. Just be sure when you do a set of curls or whatever you give it your all but your all is different for everybody. Only you through experience can you know when you?ve done to much or to little. If it takes you a week to recover you either are out of shape or you worked out way to hard or to much or both. If you are just starting it can take weeks to get used to working out but once you are in shape you should feel good after a workout.

I know some of this stuff has been beat to death on here and elsewhere and then beat to death some more. I always think about the sun tan / sun burn analogy. Also callouses on the hands from manuel labor and what not. The idea of working your muscles/body so hard that you have to rest for days and days, refraining from other physical activity, resting so you can recover and go do it again is kinda strange to me. Not saying not too work hard and I have some of my own thoughts and experience on recovery anyway. Great post Scott. Great discussion everybody.


Hey Donnie, it's not only a kinda strange idea, its bloody stupid. Though when your on a Ton of...hmmm Russian "supplements", you can recover much faster. Cycling intensity and keeping yourself primed is better option imo, so that if a situation should arise, you'll be ready to take names.
Best
Rob
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Donnie Hunt

sirloin wrote:
Donnie Hunt wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott===
I?m not saying push to you drop kind of nonsense . I never do that . If fact I leave my workouts feeling rejuvenated and energized because I know how to push myself without over doing it. I?ve been to gyms a million times and I see guys pretty much going through the motions. They start to do 10 reps and stop at 10 reps. It?s like they are afraid their muscles might get sore if the pushed to hard? I love that sore muscle feeling but not so sore you have to stop for a week, that?s just dumb. You just need to either push a little harder or change up the routine some the next workout as you muscles get accustomed to a routine very quickly. Slow or fast or some other fancy workout mode isn?t the answer. Just be sure when you do a set of curls or whatever you give it your all but your all is different for everybody. Only you through experience can you know when you?ve done to much or to little. If it takes you a week to recover you either are out of shape or you worked out way to hard or to much or both. If you are just starting it can take weeks to get used to working out but once you are in shape you should feel good after a workout.

I know some of this stuff has been beat to death on here and elsewhere and then beat to death some more. I always think about the sun tan / sun burn analogy. Also callouses on the hands from manuel labor and what not. The idea of working your muscles/body so hard that you have to rest for days and days, refraining from other physical activity, resting so you can recover and go do it again is kinda strange to me. Not saying not too work hard and I have some of my own thoughts and experience on recovery anyway. Great post Scott. Great discussion everybody.

Hey Donnie, it's not only a kinda strange idea, its bloody stupid. Though when your on a Ton of...hmmm Russian "supplements", you can recover much faster. Cycling intensity and keeping yourself primed is better option imo, so that if a situation should arise, you'll be ready to take names.
Best
Rob


That is where I am at my friend. To each their own of course. I like how you say, "keeping yourself primed".
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


And - - - yet, I have been constantly criticized for my constantly changing routines.
However, I am the most hated poster here.
Contrarian to the end!


But,

I shot down the anti-cardio crap, and removed the halo off Global Metabolic Conditioning! Just pure Hogwash!



Most hated? That might be Grant. You probably make the top 5 though...

My impression is that the push back is more about tone than substance, and attacks on certain HIT personalities.

Is Global Metabolic Conditioning is Pure Hogwash? Don't those kind of workouts beneficially improve the mitochondria of the muscles being worked? Your graphic suggests that should be of value...
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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


And - - - yet, I have been constantly criticized for my constantly changing routines.
However, I am the most hated poster here.
Contrarian to the end!


But,

I shot down the anti-cardio crap, and removed the halo off Global Metabolic Conditioning! Just pure Hogwash!



Most hated? That might be Grant. You probably make the top 5 though...


Show some respect, at least Top 2!



My impression is that the push back is more about tone than substance, and attacks on certain HIT personalities.

The substance has a bite!


Is Global Metabolic Conditioning is Pure Hogwash?

In the context of BBS




Don't those kind of workouts beneficially improve the mitochondria of the muscles being worked? Your graphic suggests that should be of value...


You can urinate into the ocean and sea level does not change.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


And - - - yet, I have been constantly criticized for my constantly changing routines.
However, I am the most hated poster here.
Contrarian to the end!


But,

I shot down the anti-cardio crap, and removed the halo off Global Metabolic Conditioning! Just pure Hogwash!



Most hated? That might be Grant. You probably make the top 5 though...


Show some respect, at least Top 2!



My impression is that the push back is more about tone than substance, and attacks on certain HIT personalities.

The substance has a bite!


Is Global Metabolic Conditioning is Pure Hogwash?

In the context of BBS




Don't those kind of workouts beneficially improve the mitochondria of the muscles being worked? Your graphic suggests that should be of value...


You can urinate into the ocean and sea level does not change.


== Scott==
You know, I wish you guys would ask permission before you post my picture, ha ha !
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